# The Holmes and Watson archetype **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 27, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087 "2012-04-27T00:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/1 "2012-04-27T00:58:19Z")
The detective is obsessive, brilliant, and unconventional. He/she is willing and able to solve the cases that no one else can, often by working outside the mainstream structure and methods. He is presumptuous and insensitive, has few friends, and often offends or alienates people. He does not seek fame and fortune, but simply wants to solve the mystery, and often lets others take the credit (leading to a grudging respect from other detectives, who otherwise regard him as reckless). He indulges an addiction when he is not working on a case. His partner, an educated professional, is intelligent, trustworthy, and conservative. He/she is a conventional thinker, perceptive but unable to follow the detective’s methods. Nonetheless he trusts the detective implicitly, and is willing to assist despite being in the dark about the true nature of the mystery. He does the talking when empathy is required, and will try to mollify those the detective offends. He is often called on to distract or placate the police to prevent them from interfering with the detective’s investigation. He does the paperwork, and acts admirably when bravery is needed. Together, they fight crime. I’ve just described: Holmes and Watson Mulder and Scully House and Wilson Who else? Bonus points for listing the detective’s addiction. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/2 "2012-04-27T01:07:59Z")
Nothing to add, but once I realized it, I thought the Holmes/Watson - House/Wilson thing was a bit too obvious an allusion. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/3 "2012-04-27T01:09:49Z")
Hercule Poirot and Arthur Hastings C. August Dupin and the unnamed narrator of the story (which, of course, predated Holmes). The Old Man in the Corner and the Lady Journalist. The Old Man solves the mystery from his corner in the tea shop (though he does talk about visiting the crime scenes and trials) Mr. Linley and Smithers in “The Two Bottles of Relish” by Lord Dunsany (he was probably parodying Holmes and Watson). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/4 "2012-04-27T01:18:23Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Hercule Poirot and Arthur Hastings I stealing your bonus! Poirot could arguably be described as “addicted” to obsessive neatness and symmetry, and in fact if the character were created nowadays he would probably be interpreted clinically as suffering from OCD. The OCD-plagued detective Adrian Monk in the eponymous TV series could be considered a modern black-comedy reworking of Poirot (as Dr. House was of Sherlock Holmes), with his nurse Sharona Fleming acting as his sidekick. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/5 "2012-04-27T01:20:57Z")
Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin A.J. Raffles and Bunny Manders ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/6 "2012-04-27T01:23:18Z")
The basic trope is the sidekick serves as the stand-in for the readers. He asks the questions the readers are wondering and the hero explaining things to the sidekick serves as exposition. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/7 "2012-04-27T02:05:38Z")
From Randall Garrett’s Lord Darcy fantasy/mystery stories, Lord Darcy and Master Sean O’Lochlainn are pretty close; unsurprising since they are in part a Holmes/Watson homage. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/8 "2012-04-27T02:18:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The basic trope is the sidekick serves as the stand-in for the readers. He asks the questions the readers are wondering and the hero explaining things to the sidekick serves as exposition. It also allows the author to delay the explanation till the reveal at the end. The protagonist Watson (and thus the reader) sees the same clues as Holmes, but isn’t privy to his internal knowledge and deductions. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/9 "2012-04-27T02:20:17Z")
Interesting that you describe Monk as based on Poirot. I’ve only seen the show once or twice, and assumed it was a direct Holmes homage, particularly given Sharona’s medical qualification. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/10 "2012-04-27T02:21:52Z")
Morse and Lewis. There’s gotta be a million of these. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/11 "2012-04-27T02:31:18Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > ..and often lets others take the credit (leading to a grudging respect from other detectives, who otherwise regard him as reckless)… Pardon my ignorance, as I haven’t read much of Conan Doyle’s original Holmes stories, but were there any other real (if inferior) detectives? The police in the films always seem to be portrayed as thugs or bullies, with never an original thought among them. They don’t seem to investigate at all, just simply arrest the most convenient suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/12 "2012-04-27T02:35:49Z")
Batman and Robin? ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/13 "2012-04-27T02:43:03Z")
1605: Don Quixote and Sancho Panza ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/14 "2012-04-27T02:47:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Pardon my ignorance, as I haven’t read much of Conan Doyle’s original Holmes stories, but were there any other real (if inferior) detectives? Inspector Lestrade, primarily. In the stories he’s eventually described as competent, though too conventional to solve Holmes’s cases. The movies invariably ruin the minor characters. The Guy Richie ones are reasonably faithful with Holmes and Watson as films go, but Lestrade, Irene Adler etc are caricatures. The Basil Rathbone ones are worse, they reduce Watson to bumbling comic relief. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/15 "2012-04-27T02:58:32Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Morse and Lewis. “Police detective and another police detective” seems a stretch, unless they match some of the other attributes (you may be right, I’ve never seen that one). Deliberate homages usually throw it some clues like an addiction for Holmes, a medical background for Watson. NCIS seems to play with multiple Holmes/Watson pairs: Gibbs (coffee) and Ducky (medical background) Abby (caffeine) and McGee (writer) > [@kunilou](#): > > Batman and Robin? “Crime fighting duo” is too vague by itself. > [@K364](#): > > 1605: Don Quixote and Sancho Panza Interesting. Don Quixote might fit, in an ironic way. What makes Sancho Panza fit the Watson archetype? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/16 "2012-04-27T03:03:16Z")
> [@K364](#): > > 1605: Don Quixote and Sancho Panza A reverse of sorts? Sancho Panza showed that he was almost as good as a “Holmes” when being the ruler and judge of Barataria, a fictional ínsula (“isle”). And throughout the tale Sancho is usually the voice of reason, even if he was a little ignorant. Don Quixote was mad as a hatter. As for the OP, Edgar Alan Poe with his _Murders in the Rue Morgue_ was one of the first to come with the archetype with C. Auguste Dupin and his “Watson” the narrator of the few tales of Dupin and his friend. AFAIK the “Watson” was not ever named. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/17 "2012-04-27T03:11:21Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > “Police detective and another police detective” seems a stretch, unless they match some of the other attributes Because I had just looked at tonight’s TV listings before reading this, the first thing I thought of was Jane and Lisbon of “The Mentalist.” The only thing that doesn’t fit the OP to a tee is that Jane has an obsession, rather than an addiction. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/18 "2012-04-27T03:49:52Z")
Bones and Booth. StG ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/19 "2012-04-27T04:09:19Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Pardon my ignorance, as I haven’t read much of Conan Doyle’s original Holmes stories, but were there any other real (if inferior) detectives? The police in the films always seem to be portrayed as thugs or bullies, with never an original thought among them. They don’t seem to investigate at all, just simply arrest the most convenient suspect. As **tellyworth** noted, in the books the Scotland Yard detectives Lestrade and Gregson are not totally incompetent, if far inferior to Holmes. But I think Inspector Stanley Hopkins, a fan and more-or-less protege of Holmes, comes closer than either to counting as another “real detective”. ETA: Oh, and so does Inspector Baynes of the uniformed police force. Post-ETA: [And all the rest.](http://www.paulsquiz.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=598&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=187) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/20 "2012-04-27T05:11:36Z")
This is also detective/detecttive, but Goren and Eames in Law and Order:Criminal Intent were this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087.md?page=2)