# The Holmes and Watson archetype **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 27, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087 "2012-04-27T00:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/21 "2012-04-27T06:04:04Z")
William of Baskerville and Adso, in _The Name of the Rose_. As suggested by William’s place of origin, they’re a deliberate homage to Holmes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/22 "2012-04-27T06:30:06Z")
James Rockford and Angel Martin Thomas Magnum and Higgins Deitrich and Fish ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/23 "2012-04-27T10:31:07Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Morse and Lewis [Lewis and Hathaway](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_%28TV_series%29) ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/24 "2012-04-27T10:40:31Z")
Tony Stark and Pepper Potts? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/25 "2012-04-27T11:04:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The basic trope is the sidekick serves as the stand-in for the readers. He asks the questions the readers are wondering and the hero explaining things to the sidekick serves as exposition. In this way and in the unusualness of the pater’s methods, Father Brown and Flambeau match, but the good father is lacking on known addictions. ---
**Author:** ![audit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@audit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audit1)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/26 "2012-04-27T11:17:29Z")
In Sax Rohmers Fu Manchu series we have detective Nayland Smith and his associate Dr Petrie. In S S Van Dines Philo Vance series we heave detective Philo Vance and his Watson S S Van Dine. (Van Dine used his own name for the character.) ---
**Author:** ![nudgenudge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@nudgenudge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nudgenudge)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/27 "2012-04-27T11:18:32Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > Who else? Bonus points for listing the detective’s addiction. Who else indeed? The title character of Doctor Who is often said to owe a lot to Sherlock Homes. Addiction: jelly babies? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/28 "2012-04-27T12:35:42Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > > [@njtt](#): > > > > Morse and Lewis. > > “Police detective and another police detective” seems a stretch, unless they match some of the other attributes (you may be right, I’ve never seen that one). Yes, I think it fits. Morse is the intellectual, lazy, misanthropic loner who solves crimes through insight into character and occasional flashes of brilliance. Lewis, his sidekick, is the salt of the Earth, commonsensical everyman, very loyal to Morse despite how Morse teases and takes advantage of him (just as Holmes does of Watson). In the TV show, also (I imagine the books were too long ago) Lewis also has one significant area of expertise that Morse lacks, although in this case it is computers rather than medicine. > [@Floater](#): > > [Lewis and Hathaway](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_%28TV_series%29) I thought of this: but no. Lewis is still the same Lewis, except that he is now the boss (and they killed off his wife, making him a bit more dour). Hathaway is the supercilious intellectual. In _some_ respects Hathaway is like Morse (though not so obviously misanthropic), but since he is younger, and the subordinate, the dynamic is quite different. I am not sure that I do not think Lewis and Hathaway actually works better than Morse and Lewis did, but the former does not fit the archetype and the latter did. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/29 "2012-04-27T12:39:40Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In this way and in the unusualness of the pater’s methods, Father Brown and Flambeau match, but the good father is lacking on known addictions. Flambeau, the mercurial former criminal, could hardly be more unlike Watson, though. And if an addiction is a requirement, to return to my former theme, Morse has beer and Wagner. (Of course, Holmes is a music lover too.) ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/30 "2012-04-27T12:47:08Z")
Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin. Wolfe’s addiction was orchids. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/31 "2012-04-27T13:11:09Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Flambeau, the mercurial former criminal, could hardly be more unlike Watson, though. But he’s there to be asking the questions the reader would ask and to provide clues which he does not recognize as such. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/32 "2012-04-27T14:01:36Z")
> [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](#): > > Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin. Wolfe’s addiction was orchids. and beer and food. Archie’s was females, it would almost get him killed on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/33 "2012-04-27T14:22:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The basic trope is the sidekick serves as the stand-in for the readers. He asks the questions the readers are wondering and the hero explaining things to the sidekick serves as exposition. I wanted to mention Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin from the \*Master and Commander \*series as an example of this trope. They are a particularly interesting pair because each is hyper-competent in their own field and incompetent in their partner’s, so each one takes a turn as the reader stand-in. They don’t fight crime, though. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/34 "2012-04-27T14:36:21Z")
Wendell Urth and H. Seaton Davenport from Isaac Asimov’s “Wendell Urth” stories. Urth is an agoraphobe who never leaves his apartment. Davenport is actually a competent cop and manages to solve one of the mysteries without Urth being involved. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/35 "2012-04-27T14:48:06Z")
Shawn and Gus on _Psych_. The brilliant unconventional detective who is addicted to Eighties pop cultural references, and his medical-supplies sidekick who can distract the police, comfort victims, and act like a grownup when necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/36 "2012-04-27T14:51:28Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Batman and Robin? > [@Chronos](#): > > William of Baskerville and Adso, in _The Name of the Rose_. As suggested by William’s place of origin, they’re a deliberate homage to Holmes. No to both; the junior partner is more of a protege or naif, which is a different kind of audience stand-in. Batman makes a good Holmes; someone has got to have paired him with a Watson at some point in the thousands of stories that have been told over the years, but I don’t know who. Alfred, maybe? In comics, there’s Rorschach and Nite Owl. Entertainingly enough, Rorschach, the unconventional brilliant one, is barking up the wrong tree the whole time until Nite Owl cracks the case. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/37 "2012-04-27T14:59:30Z")
R. Daneil Olivar & Elijah Baily. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/38 "2012-04-27T15:44:50Z")
Lord Peter Wimsey and Charles Parker are a detective/detective pair, and Parker’s not the narrator, but he’s definitely the solid counterpart to Wimsey’s eccentric brilliance. Wimsey suffers from WWI-induced PTSD, but I don’t know that you could call him “addicted” to anything. Music? First editions? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/39 "2012-04-27T17:13:48Z")
The professions are different, but I always thought Henry Higgins (irascible genius) & Colonel Pickering (more gentlemanly & recently returned from The East) were a similar pair of confirmed bachelor housemates in old London… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087/40 "2012-04-27T17:16:57Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Batman makes a good Holmes; someone has got to have paired him with a Watson at some point in the thousands of stories that have been told over the years, but I don’t know who. A number of team-ups with Superman pretty much went the way the OP described. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holmes-and-watson-archetype/620087.md?page=3)