# The holocaust is a hoax .... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204 "2008-10-23T13:45:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Allan\_Gurfinkle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allan_Gurfinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/201 "2008-10-23T18:52:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Saying we’re afraid of the truth is a cheap copout. The bottom line is that your evidence is very unpersuasive given the historical record, and it’s easier to say people are “afraid” instead of acknowledging that an overwhelming majority of people feel the same way. > > Since I think this deserves a response I’ll post it again. > > Were you aware of this, and have you been there? You can watch the Cole video with the official guide to see that the guides did not admit anything of the sort then, and as I understand it, do not admit anything now unless challenged. See the scrapbook pages discussion for verification. So, after 50 years the authorities began to admit the Auschwitz gas chamber was a ‘reconstruction’, by which they meant the holes in the roof had been added. This is all explained in detail in the Cole video by the director of Auschwitz. No one claims that the Majdanek gas chamber is a reconstruction. Besides, what difference does it make if we call it a reconstruction or a hoax. They are the same thing if not admitted, and no serious person claims that the Auschwitz reconstruction was admitted before the 1990’s. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/202 "2008-10-23T18:52:50Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > OK, so at least now we know what the OP’s apparent point was: a ‘single-state solution’ to Israel vs. Paletsinian territories. Please explain further: how do you envision that working, exactly? I’m guessing it involves certain existing populations being “driven into the sea”… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/203 "2008-10-23T19:01:11Z")
> [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](#): > > You can watch the Cole video with the official guide to see that the guides did not admit anything of the sort then, and as I understand it, do not admit anything now unless challenged. See the scrapbook pages discussion for verification. So, after 50 years the authorities began to admit the Auschwitz gas chamber was a ‘reconstruction’, by which they meant the holes in the roof had been added. This is all explained in detail in the Cole video by the director of Auschwitz. > > No one claims that the Majdanek gas chamber is a reconstruction. > Besides, what difference does it make if we call it a reconstruction or a hoax. They are the same thing if not admitted, and no serious person claims that the Auschwitz reconstruction was admitted before the 1990’s. Forgive me if I repeat myself. What kind of evidence would you accept? Would you agree that if there were an official meeting, where it was discussed on how to kill all the Jews in Europe, that this would be sufficient evidence to establish that this was their intent? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/204 "2008-10-23T19:01:17Z")
> [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](#): > > I got interested reading the internet and seeing a post that the stone plaque at Auschwitz was changed from four million died to one and a half million. Following that post there was the usual insult and evasion that we see in this thread. I thought, wait, this is a simple fact, true or false, and I can determine if it’s true or not. It is true. That was the start. Actually, I remember hearing about that as well (well, not the plaque specifically, but the fact that Auschwitz, while a key location for the Holocaust, was not where most of the Jewish victims actually died). It actually makes the whole thing worse in a way, because rather than Auschwitz being some kind of black hole where Jews could disappear and arguably, maybe, many Germans and collaborators could claim lack of knowledge, most Jewish victims were just being killed at the local level, in cities and towns conquered by Nazis and with the full knowledge (and sometimes the active cooperation) of local citizens. > [@](#): > > The phony holocaust is what is preventing a single state solution to the middle east situation, the only solution that will bring stability. Well, much of the rhetoric is that a _new_ Holocaust is desired by people who want Jews driven into the sea and whatnot. Strangely, it’s not Jews who are expressing this sentiment. > [@](#): > > The original post links to two photos of hoax gas chambers with glass windows. Almost no one wants to discuss this incredible fact that strikes right at the heart of the holocaust lies. When you consider the implications of these hoax gas chambers, you will know the the holocaust story is in need of BIG revision. How thick are those glass windows, anyway? Seems to me inch-thick glass (well within the capabilities of 1940s technology) would be sufficient against people without weapons being overcome by poison gas. In the interest of conducting one’s own research, I invite you to try to break an inch-thick glass panel with your bare hands (well, wear gloves for safety) while holding your breath. Seems to me that for glass windows to be counter-evidence, you’d have to demonstrate that they could easily be broken. Without data on this thickness and composition of said glass, the argument is meaningless, and that’s assuming the material even _is_ glass. There are acrylic materials that would do the job even better. While expensive, these were also available in 1940s Europe. > [@](#): > > The craziest slander of the Nazis is accepted without question, and any attempt to examine the fact is greeted with ridicule and evasion. There is one reason for this only, you, that is, the majority of posters here, are afraid of the truth. I promise I won’t ridicule or evade and I’m not afraid of anything. > [@](#): > > If you’re not afraid of the truth, let’s discuss those hoax gas chambers. Well, first we’d have to establish that they (“they” referring to the original structures, not any post-war reconstructions) _are_ a hoax. One one side are numerous eyewitness accounts of the chambers being used, photographs of corpses, industrial-sized ovens for mass disposals, etc. On the other, so far, are some windows that may or may not be glass, and may or may not be of sufficient thickness. The latter does not meet the burden. What else do you have? ---
**Author:** ![Allan\_Gurfinkle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allan_Gurfinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/205 "2008-10-23T19:01:28Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m guessing it involves certain existing populations being “driven into the sea”… It involves recognizing the Palestinians as people who have as much right if not more to be in Israel then the Israelis, unifying the territories, and having elections in all of Palestine. Like they did in South Africa. It worked there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/206 "2008-10-23T19:02:59Z")
> [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](#): > > The Nazis did everything in their power to prevent the catastrophe at Belsen. Assuming, arguendo, that everything else you have said so far is completely true (which I don’t believe for an instant), the above statement is _still_ nonsense. Based on your description of the events at Belsen, the Nazis had a simple alternative which would have been _guaranteed_ to prevent outbreaks of typhus at that camp, or any other: DON’T ROUND UP INNOCENT PEOPLE AND SEND THEM TO CONCENTRATION CAMPS! I apologize for the caps - but my God, man, doesn’t sending innocent people to concentration camps, for no reason other than their religion/sexual orientation/ethnicity/the Fuhrer’s birthday strike you as a monstrously evil thing? If the _only_ result of this program were that it led to massive, deadly plagues - even if all this were _true_, how could you then say “the Nazis did everything in their power”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/207 "2008-10-23T19:04:47Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Wow, that is fascinating. I’ve read extensively about the Holocaust, mostly because it boggles my mind that humans can be capable of such evil. But one of the most poignant accounts I’ve ever heard was from a man who was 14 when Auschwitz was liberated. He described how he had been treated like garbage for so long, that he didn’t feel human anymore. He felt he had no worth. Then when the Americans arrived at the camp, he described how a young American GI came up to him with tears and horror in his eyes. He said the GI took off his coat and put it around the boy and hugged him around the shoulder, then went fishing through his pockets to find him something to eat. He said “I couldn’t believe it. Here I was this smelly disgusting animal covered in lice and filth, yet this man…this privileged man..touched me, put his arm around me like I was a real person.” It is one of those interviews I will never forget. American GI? [Auschwitz was liberated by the **Soviet** Army.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz#Evacuation_and_liberation) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/208 "2008-10-23T19:06:07Z")
So, **Gurfinkle,** who, exactly, perpetrated this Holocaust hoax, and why, and how did they manage to pull it off so well? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/209 "2008-10-23T19:06:40Z")
> [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](#): > > Besides, what difference does it make if we call it a reconstruction or a hoax. They are the same thing if not admitted, and no serious person claims that the Auschwitz reconstruction was admitted before the 1990’s. Actually, no, I would say those two words mean very different things. A reconstruction tells us only what occurred, and provides no motivation for why it was done. A hoax, on the other hand, implies that the perpetrators set out to deliberately decieve. I think it’s a quite significant difference that means we must be careful as to which word is used. ---
**Author:** ![Allan\_Gurfinkle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allan_Gurfinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/210 "2008-10-23T19:06:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I promise I won’t ridicule or evade and I’m not afraid of anything. You are evading. The doors are unsealed wooden office doors, the window is just typical window glass. This gas chamber is an obvious hoax. If you cannot recognize this easy fact, I cannot convince you of anything. The scrapbook pages guy asked the guard … “Why didn’t the prisoners break the glass” … the guard responded … “Because a guard was stationed at the outside of the door with a gun.” This is evident nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/211 "2008-10-23T19:07:40Z")
**Allan Gurfinkle** , I’d like a response to post [#169](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10351207&postcount=169). ---
**Author:** ![Allan\_Gurfinkle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aca169/32.png) [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allan_Gurfinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/212 "2008-10-23T19:07:53Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Actually, no, I would say those two words mean very different things. A reconstruction tells us only what occurred, and provides no motivation for why it was done. A hoax, on the other hand, implies that the perpetrators set out to deliberately decieve. I think it’s a quite significant difference that means we must be careful as to which word is used. I agree with you 100% and that is why I use the word hoax. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/213 "2008-10-23T19:08:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > American GI? [Auschwitz was liberated by the **Soviet** Army.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz#Evacuation_and_liberation) Correct. My parents could never believe all the anti-communist language in the States or work up the required hatred for the USSR simply for this reason. Although they recognized the problems in the USSR, including treatment of Jews, they still remember the Soviet soldiers who liberated them. I think I need to unsubscribe to this thread. I placed my parents’ story here in a previous post. I have nothing more to add, and so much to be bothered by. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/214 "2008-10-23T19:08:48Z")
[Edit]I am reconstructing this post.[/Edit] Mock mock mock. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/215 "2008-10-23T19:09:20Z")
Are you still willing to discuss the gas chambers? What kind of evidence do you need for that? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/216 "2008-10-23T19:09:28Z")
On further reflection, it occurs to me that I am perhaps mistaken about the significance of the glass windows. Are these windows in buildings constructed after the war, or are they evident in pictures taken in Auschwitz during the war? If the former, then I don’t understand their relevance, any more than than a Civil War re-enactor wearing a digital watch proves the Civil War never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/217 "2008-10-23T19:10:49Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Wow, that is fascinating. I’ve read extensively about the Holocaust, mostly because it boggles my mind that humans can be capable of such evil. But one of the most poignant accounts I’ve ever heard was from a man who was 14 when Auschwitz was liberated. He described how he had been treated like garbage for so long, that he didn’t feel human anymore. He felt he had no worth. Then when the Americans arrived at the camp, he described how a young American GI came up to him with tears and horror in his eyes. He said the GI took off his coat and put it around the boy and hugged him around the shoulder, then went fishing through his pockets to find him something to eat. He said “I couldn’t believe it. Here I was this smelly disgusting animal covered in lice and filth, yet this man…this privileged man..touched me, put his arm around me like I was a real person.” It is one of those interviews I will never forget. I appreciate the point of this anecdote, but very few if any GIs ever saw Auschwitz-Birkenau, which was liberated by the Red Army. Anyway, to the OP, what the hell do you think was going on at Bergen-Belsen then? Here’s a page with an excerpt from a 15th April 1945 radio broadcast by Richard Dimbleby of the BBC, who was one of the first inside the camp. Falsified, do you think? > **[BBC NEWS | In Depth | Audio slideshow: Liberation of Belsen](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/4445811.stm)** > > Images of the horror that greeted British troops as they entered the concentration camp, accompanied by Richard Dimbleby's original radio report. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/218 "2008-10-23T19:12:10Z")
> [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](#): > > You are evading. The doors are unsealed wooden office doors, the window is just typical window glass. This gas chamber is an obvious hoax. If you cannot recognize this easy fact, I cannot convince you of anything. Forgive me if I request a clarification - are these features of buildings constructed (or repaired/renovated) on the Auschwitz site after 1945, or are these the original features of the original buildings? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/219 "2008-10-23T19:12:12Z")
> [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](#): > > I agree with you 100% and that is why I use the word hoax. Oh. Well, then why did you say it didn’t matter which word was used? And if I may ask, who are the hoaxers and what is their motivation to deceive? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/220 "2008-10-23T19:12:35Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > There are actually people who study the psychology and motives of Holocaust deniers, and the conclusion they mainly come to is this: > > They are predominently Nazi-wannabes. But they are smart enough to realize that one of the main reaons Nazism is so reviled in the world is the memory of the Holocaust. If only they can get the world to believe that the Holocaust did not occur, then Nazism could come back as a legitimate political philosophy (they think). > > Ed It’s the snappy uniforms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204.md?page=12)