# The holocaust is a hoax .... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 23, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204 "2008-10-23T13:45:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/161 "2008-10-23T17:38:35Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > We’ll never convince him otherwise so let him live in his fairyland all he wants and just pray he doesn’t have kids. He’d never do that. It’s not worth the risk. One out of sixty children born in the U.S. is Jewish, you know. He might get one of those! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/162 "2008-10-23T17:40:48Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Can’t call anyone a troll in GD, but as there are people that get joy out of riling up the public, there are those that get joy out of antagonizing someone so wrong. Ok he isn’t a troll… Still, I don’t see why folks are giving him the time of day. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/163 "2008-10-23T17:41:24Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Wow, that is fascinating. I’ve read extensively about the Holocaust, mostly because it boggles my mind that humans can be capable of such evil. But one of the most poignant accounts I’ve ever heard was from a man who was 14 when Auschwitz was liberated. He described how he had been treated like garbage for so long, that he didn’t feel human anymore. He felt he had no worth. Then when the Americans arrived at the camp, he described how a young American GI came up to him with tears and horror in his eyes. He said the GI took off his coat and put it around the boy and hugged him around the shoulder, then went fishing through his pockets to find him something to eat. He said “I couldn’t believe it. Here I was this smelly disgusting animal covered in lice and filth, yet this man…this privileged man..touched me, put his arm around me like I was a real person.” It is one of those interviews I will never forget. Now THAT brought tears to my eyes. One of the greatest honours of my life was playing the role of Raoul Wallenberg in a musical based on his life. One of the hardest jobs in my life was researching that period in history, including speaking to survivors. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/164 "2008-10-23T17:43:46Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Because he’s a nice break from the myriad US presidential election threads. That’s interesting definition of ‘nice’ with which I am unfamiliar. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/165 "2008-10-23T17:43:51Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Ok he isn’t a troll… > > Still, I don’t see why folks are giving him the time of day. 'Cause it’s funny, and I’m bored. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/166 "2008-10-23T17:44:50Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > On edit… **Shodan** is quicker than I am!! Yeah, my wife said that on our wedding night too. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/167 "2008-10-23T17:49:45Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Who cares about this troll? We’ll never convince him otherwise so let him live in his fairyland all he wants and just pray he doesn’t have kids. Because there are probably youth today who don’t have any direct experience with survivors, or the families of survivors. They may have slept throught World History class in school, or may have never read _The Diary of Anne Frank_ or _Schindler’s List_, or may think the History Channel is best viewed for ghost stories. For whatever reason, the Holocaust is just a footnote to them. Discussions like this might keep the flame of understanding alive. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/168 "2008-10-23T17:53:14Z")
> [@Allan\_Gurfinkle](#): > > A short proof that the holocaust , that is, that millions were killed in gas chambers, is a hoax, follows. So, just out of curiosity…are you calling my Grandfather, my great Uncle, and my Great Grandmother liars when they say that my Great Grandfather was killed in the camps? (My great grandmother is dead now, but was able to escape to Israel with her oldest child; her husband (my great grandfather) and my grandfather were not so lucky. But they are all liars. It didn’t happen? That is such a load off my mind. I will tell my Grandmother to calm my Grandfather down because the nightmares that he still wakes up with a couple of times a week are just a dillusion. It never happened. Its a load off my mind I tells ya. I know I probably shouldn’t have responded, but I really don’t know how not to. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/169 "2008-10-23T18:03:53Z")
[quote=] **After the war the directors of Tesch/Stabenow and Degesch, the two firms who supplied Zyclon B, insisted that they had sold their products for fumigation purposes and did not know they were being used on humans**. But the prosecutors found incriminating letters from Tesch not only offering to supply the gas crystals for use on humans but also advising how to use the ventilating and heating equipment. Two Tesch partners were sentenced to death in 1946 and hanged. **Cyanide compounds were found on the ventilation grills of the extermination chambers, proving beyond doubt that gassing did take place inside them.** **Finally, the undeniable evidence that the SS ordered Degesch to remove the indicator odor, mandated under German law, which was added to the Zyklon B in order to provide a warning to human beings that the lethal stuff was nearby.** I believe **this demonstrated clear criminal intent - the SS would hardly have removed the indicator odor if they had intended, as the denial set insists, to use the gas only on insects and corpses..**. Consider the testimony of SS private Hoeblinger: _At another, later gassing – also in autumn 1941 – Grabner ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children. As the Zyklon B – as already mentioned – was in granular form, it trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight._\* [/quote] Gurfinkle, how do you respond to the above evidence that the gas chambers were indeed used to kill humans? There’s plenty more too, including forensic testing that was done on the walls of the gas chambers. p.s. I hope you are enjoying your lunch! ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/170 "2008-10-23T18:06:49Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I know I probably shouldn’t have responded, but I really don’t know how not to. People like you should respond. Let the people who are reading this thread see it. Gurfinkle has nothing he can say about it. He has a few little nitpicks, things he holds onto with fervent belief regardless of what’s said about it, and that’s all. No real evidence, just the usual misdirections, misrepresentations, and ‘its a conspiracy!’ rantings. If the Bad Arolsen documents are so secret, how does he know what’s in them? Has anyone ever claimed that Anne Frank was killed in the gas chambers? What about all the questions he has yet to address? He appears to be selecting his arguments in this thread very carefully, and ignoring a majority of the posters. Why is he not addressing them? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/171 "2008-10-23T18:07:29Z")
When I was in college we had a man and woman as guest speakers (we had lots of guest speakers of course). In this case the woman was a concentration camp survivor complete with tattoo. Perhaps more interestingly was the man who was a former guard at a concentration camp. I do not recall many specifics (was a long time ago…late 80’s) but to the OP I would ask how he would explain that man’s purpose for being there if the Holocaust never happened? Was he lying? Hypnotized into believing he did things he didn’t? I recall they were not being paid to do this beyond having travel expenses covered. For that the man was publicly reviled nearly everywhere he went. Many in our audience let him know in no uncertain terms their revulsion and hatred for the man (the man said he was used to and expected such responses…he did what he did as a sort of expiation for having been a part of that horror show). Hell of a thing for a person to do for something that never happened. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/172 "2008-10-23T18:10:54Z")
> [@mazinger\_z](#): > > You know, I never understood why anyone would want to disclaim this event from happening, why is that? I mean, why do people not want to admit that this happened? The existence of the Holocaust and of the mass murder of other groups by the Nazis is an enormous impediment to the revival of widespread anti-Semitism and to racial superiority doctrines in general. Therefore it becomes essential for people pushing these ideas to deny the Holocaust. By the way, denial has its limits even for a repulsive Holocaust denier like David Irving. Irving eventually [conceded that millions of Jews were killed](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article735817.ece)\* at the Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka extermination camps - but he’s still holding out for the idea that such murders did not take place at Auschwitz. Poor David’s reputation as a historian remains in tatters, plus now he’s got his fellow Holocaust deniers spitting mad. ☹ I know Allan is unreceptive to facts unless they are filtered through his preferred sources (as opposed to the vast amount of authoritative evidence which can be sneeringly dismissed as “ADL-controlled”), but there’s still that question that others here have asked and to which he hasn’t replied - what got you onto this Holocaust denial thing, why is it important to you and what do you hope to gain? _I have no idea why this Times’ article shows up in the “European Football” section._\* :dubious: \*\*And while we’re talking football - in reference to Allan’s other genius thread in the Comments on Cecil’s Columns forum, there is _absolutely no truth_ to the rumor that there’s a German football team called the Buchenwald Lampshades. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/173 "2008-10-23T18:14:03Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Ok he isn’t a troll… > > Still, I don’t see why folks are giving him the time of day. Like most people here, I had mixed feelings about posting in this thread. But the unfortunate reality is that there are people who deny the Holocaust and I think ignoring them is somehow tacit approval of their misguided position. While I don’t think any of us will get thru to the OP, there are countless others who read here and may be more receptive to having their ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/174 "2008-10-23T18:16:53Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > So, just out of curiosity…are you calling my Grandfather, my great Uncle, and my Great Grandmother liars when they say that my Great Grandfather was killed in the camps? (My great grandmother is dead now, but was able to escape to Israel with her oldest child; her husband (my great grandfather) and my grandfather were not so lucky. > > But they are all liars. It didn’t happen? To be fair I am not sure how far this can go as evidence that the Holocaust happened…at least on this message board. Make no mistake I believe you and I also fully believe the Holocaust happened. Nevertheless that amounts to second hand anecdotal evidence. Not to mention sometimes people make up stories. To hear them tell it my parents, probably like many people’s parents here, walked to school through the snow uphill both ways all year round. 😉 (I do not mean to make light of your families tragic experiences…just pointing out some possible counters to your argument) ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/175 "2008-10-23T18:17:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > When I was in college we had a man and woman as guest speakers (we had lots of guest speakers of course). In this case the woman was a concentration camp survivor complete with tattoo. Perhaps more interestingly was the man who was a former guard at a concentration camp. They didn’t have them in at the same time did they? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/176 "2008-10-23T18:18:43Z")
Besides, mockery is a powerful tool. Holocaust Denier, I mock you! Mock mock mock. I am a leaf on the wind, watch me mock. Because you know, eventually, the guy’s going to come to the conclusion that either the entire world is involved in a secret conspiracy to conceal the truth, or that the guy himself is wrong. Thank you for participating in this thread. Your check from the Giant Conspiracy of Illuminated Everything is in the mail. Mock mock mock. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/177 "2008-10-23T18:19:13Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I know I probably shouldn’t have responded, but I really don’t know how not to. Of course you should have. Posts like yours are of vital importance. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/178 "2008-10-23T18:26:38Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > \*\*And while we’re talking football - in reference to Allan’s other genius thread in the Comments on Cecil’s Columns forum, there is _absolutely no truth_ to the rumor that there’s a German football team called the Buchenwald Lampshades. In the category of “Extremely Tasteless Band Names”, however… ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/179 "2008-10-23T18:27:48Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > To be fair I am not sure how far this can go as evidence that the Holocaust happened…at least on this message board. > > Make no mistake I believe you and I also fully believe the Holocaust happened. Nevertheless that amounts to second hand anecdotal evidence. Not to mention sometimes people make up stories. To hear them tell it my parents, probably like many people’s parents here, walked to school through the snow uphill both ways all year round. 😉 > > (I do not mean to make light of your families tragic experiences…just pointing out some possible counters to your argument) Absolutly. It isn’t good evidence, it is only anecdotal. But he would be calling at least three of my family members liars, and if he wants to do that I want him to come out and say it. It’s an emotional response. Also, since I don’t care too too much about my anonymity. [Here](http://www.museumoftolerance.com/site/pp.asp?c=arLPK7PILqF&b=249725)is his card at the Museum of Tolerance in LA. My Great Grandfather wasn’t gassed, which is another hole in my argument, but it doesn’t really matter. There were others who were summarily put to death all around him. He tells storys that would keep anyone awake at night. Also, if it is the gas chambers in particular that he objects to and wants to get all semantic. The holocaust doesn’t refer to the gassing of jews, it specifically describes the burning of the bodies afterwards. See a definition of the word holocaust. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/holocaust](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/holocaust) Before WWII uses 3 and 4 didn’t exist. If we are going to get semantic. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204/180 "2008-10-23T18:27:55Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > They didn’t have them in at the same time did they? :smack: They certainly did. That is a big part of what made this particular talk fascinating. Got to see the situation from both viewpoints simultaneously. The man and woman were purposely doing the show together and sat on the same stage. They were making the rounds all over the United States. I vaguely recall the woman remarking that while she had no love for the man sitting next to her she felt what they were doing important enough to be with him in this fashion and she also felt his desire to expiate his sins, as it were, was genuine and so she could do this with him (I am paraphrasing massively here…as I said been a long time but that is the sense of it). IIRC he was not a guard wherever she was. I would expect if he had been and knew her there it might be near impossible for her to be within sight of him. I could be wrong on that though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-holocaust-is-a-hoax/469204.md?page=10)