# The Homeless in Atlanta: A Reflection on controversy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421 "2014-01-22T01:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/61 "2014-01-28T03:44:20Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > I wonder how they decide who “these people” are? If I showed up in Utah and said oh man, I’m homeless, would they give me a free apartment? Because I would love a free apartment. The place here is not necessarily free, the rent is 30% of your income. Some of them have no income so it is free for them, but there are others who receive some form of income. No functional person would choose to join the ranks of the homeless just to save money. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/62 "2014-01-28T04:05:34Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > Want to digitize all of the paper records in your state? Give people an extra 50% benefits for the duration of the project. Much cheaper than hiring full employees and it puts them to effective public use. (Note, that this can NOT be open to anything but direct government agencies. No NGOs, McDonalds, etc etc) Oh hell no on the newspaper idea. have you ever tried to research them when that was done poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/63 "2014-01-28T04:33:59Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > The place here is not necessarily free, the rent is 30% of your income. Some of them have no income so it is free for them, but there are others who receive some form of income. No functional person would choose to join the ranks of the homeless just to save money. 30% of zero is zero. These programs make more sense with the advent of Obama Care. More people will be using medicaid with no source of income. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/64 "2014-01-28T05:06:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Oh hell no on the newspaper idea. have you ever tried to research them when that was done poorly. I was actually going more for Titles, marriage records, and such. Paper records in drawers and the like. But I suppose if you wanted to curate all of the news papers, you could. As for being done properly, that wouldn’t be very hard to monitor as long as it’s rote for those that don’t care and review ability is given to those that do. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/65 "2014-01-28T05:08:30Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A 74% success rate strikes me as pretty dang good, especially when we’re talking about scary homeless people. The people who are “one paycheck from being able to rent” aren’t the scary ones, they’re the invisible ones. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/66 "2014-01-28T14:15:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, having worked with the homeless, and knowing there’s at least three different sorts, any program that’s “One simple idea” is bound to fail. Even that plan has only gotten a 74% success rate, which means they have taken the creme of the easiest types off the streets. No, the programme being discussed is the **Housing First** programme and it is specific to the chronically/long-term homeless. [Cite](http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/12/20/republican_state_gives_free_houses_to_moochers_cuts_homelessness_by_74_percent.html). Malcolm Gladwell’s article _[Million Dollar Murray](http://gladwell.com/million-dollar-murray/)_ - already mentioned in this thread - discusses the two broad types of homelessness. A minority of homeless people exemplify and inform the stereotypes discussed in this thread: they have mental health problems, are often addicts, and have serious behavioural problems. Although they represent a minority, they seem to dominate the discussion. Rightly so, as their problems are harder to solve and they cost the system bucketloads. And, for reasons that should be obvious, they aren’t always helped by soup kitchens, shelters that require abstinence, etc etc. However, rigorous research has demonstrated that **Housing First** can help this group. HF offers independent housing, alongside treatment (but treatment is not obligatory and housing is not dependent on treatment compliance). The most promising evidence demonstrates that they can actually retain independent housing, against all assumptions. Housing First also shows lower rates of incarceration and emergency-room hospitalisation, which means it’s cost effective. See [this piece of research](http://www.crisis.org.uk/data/files/publications/Housing%20Models%20Report.pdf), particularly pp.8-9 (PDF). A study which replicated Housing First in London was also successful - bearing in mind this is one of the most expensive cities in the world for housing. The study showed retention in housing for a number of the sample group: all of which had previously gone in and out of hostels and the streets. It also showed a reduction in alcohol use and criminal behaviour. See [this source](http://www.york.ac.uk/media/chp/documents/2013/Camden%20Housing%20First%20Final%20Report%20NM2.pdf), p.42 (PDF). [This](http://www.homelesshub.ca/topics/housing-first-209.aspx)is a good introduction to Housing First. A quote from the page shows that you can’t attribute good results to ‘cherry picking’ - HF has been proven effective in RCTs: > [@](#): > > The At Home/Chez Soi project, funded by the Mental Health Commission of Canada is the world’s most extensive examination of Housing First. They conducted a randomized control trial where 1000 people participated in Housing First, and 1000 received ‘treatment as usual’. The results are startling: you can take the most hard core, chronically homeless person with complex mental health and addictions issues, and put them in housing with supports, and you know what? They stay housed. Over 80% of those who received Housing First remained housed after the first year. For many, use of health services declined as health improved. Involvement with the law declined as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/67 "2014-01-28T15:59:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Oh you can attach strings down the road. Sign on the dotted line and upon getting a real job you’re assessed 1/2 a percent for saving your life. > > I’m all for anything that helps people and saves money. Seems like a no-brainer. But if it really saves money then use that money up front. When politicians want this and don’t want to see budgets reduced then we’ll see which direction the bullshit meter points. Who designs, administers and penalizes the 1/2% Program? The work required for that would be tremendous, and then we’re worse off - we bought the apartment for them, then we dump millions into administering to them, all to get what? If minimum wage is $8 a hour, which is likely where these people would end up if they get a job, then we would get four cents an hour. If we staffed the 1/2% program with other people making minimum wage (unlikely), then we would need 200 people who signed away their four cents to pay for one staffer. That would be really stupid. And most of the homeless that the free housing program is designed for are the hardcore unemployable. So it far more of a waste than to just get them into a damn room. I get it - I hate it too. I am no hippie, and it’s very hard to see the value in a program like this. But, if we’ve decided we can’t just let these people die, we have to be smart about it. They are a sink of resources either way, and they’re never going to be net contributors. So this is an rough solution - warehouse them so they don’t fuck it up for the rest of us, which costs much less than having them sleep under bridges, get deathly ill six times a year, and end up using emergency services that taxpayers pay for. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/68 "2014-01-29T03:03:27Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > Who designs, administers and penalizes the 1/2% Program? Gee I dunno, who designs, administers and penalizes you with taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421/69 "2014-01-29T03:35:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Gee I dunno, who designs, administers and penalizes you with taxes? Dd you miss the rest of my comment? I’d be curious what you think of the rest of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-homeless-in-atlanta-a-reflection-on-controversy/679421.md?page=3)