# The House Judiciary Impeachment Case discussion thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 27, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697 "2019-07-27T00:58:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/181 "2019-09-16T18:10:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Dems can not remove trump from Office. A indictment in the House does nothing but allow trump to say he was proven innocent of all crime by the senate. This will boost trumps chances for re-election. > > Nothing “Weak and Vacillating”, just "smart and political. " > > Get a good number of GOP senators to announce they might vote for conviction and we will talk . Until then, any talk of “impeachment” is pointless, since what you mean is a indictment in the House which will lead to a decision of Not Guilty by the Senate. > > So , you want to give “oh please dont throw me in that impeachment patch” trump exactly what he wants, then? O.J. Simpson likes this post. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/182 "2019-09-16T18:59:32Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > O.J. Simpson likes this post. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/183 "2019-09-16T19:24:09Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > 😕 O.J. was acquitted of murder by a jury, but the effect of the trial wasn’t that it made everyone think that he wasn’t guilty. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/184 "2019-09-16T19:33:08Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > ^^^ > This. > > How many times does someone have to say this? Forty-two. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/185 "2019-09-16T19:44:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Dems can not remove trump from Office. A indictment in the House does nothing but allow trump to say he was proven innocent of all crime by the senate. He can say anything he wants - First Amendment, you know. He can say it today if he wants. > [@](#): > > This will boost trumps chances for re-election. This is an evidence-free assertion. > [@](#): > > Nothing “Weak and Vacillating”, just "smart and political. " IYHO. ETA: it definitely is NOT ‘smart and political’ to be contradicting each other about whether they are or are not having an impeachment inquiry. You’d at least have an argument if they’d decided one way or the other what they’re doing. Nothing smart and political about being evasive of _either_ alternative. That IS “weak and vacillating.” Practically the textbook definition. > [@](#): > > Get a good number of GOP senators to announce they might vote for conviction and we will talk . Until then, any talk of “impeachment” is pointless, since what you mean is a indictment in the House which will lead to a decision of Not Guilty by the Senate. Cool! With the whole nation watching, we lay out Trump’s worst crimes, first in the House Judiciary Committee, then on the House floor, and then on the Senate floor - and the Republicans all go on record as saying Trump shouldn’t be removed from office anyway. Yeah, I’ll take that. I want the Dems to be able to run against every GOP Representative, and every GOP Senator up for election in 2020, on the basis of the crimes they considered to be A-OK. > [@](#): > > So , you want to give “oh please dont throw me in that impeachment patch” trump exactly what he wants, then? And you say on the basis of what, exactly, that this is what Trump wants? Am I privileged to know a genuine psychic? How many fingers am I holding up right now? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/186 "2019-09-16T21:23:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > He can say anything he wants - First Amendment, you know. He can say it today if he wants. > This is an evidence-free assertion. IYHO. > > ETA: it definitely is NOT ‘smart and political’ to be contradicting each other about whether they are or are not having an impeachment inquiry. You’d at least have an argument if they’d decided one way or the other what they’re doing. Nothing smart and political about being evasive of _either_ alternative… With the whole nation watching, … > > Yeah, I’ll take that. I want the Dems to be able to run against every GOP Representative, and every GOP Senator up for election in 2020, on the basis of the crimes they considered to be A-OK. And you say on the basis of what, exactly, that this is what Trump wants? Am I privileged to know a genuine psychic? How many fingers am I holding up right now? But he’d have proof, since the senate will vote Not Guilty- making him…Not Guilty. Most political experts say the same. I have included cites in this thread. No, they are looking for enuf evidence to perhaps get some republicans to vote Guilty. It’s a long shot, but why not continue investigating? “With the whole nation watching”…? It is to laugh. No, they didnt watch the Mueller hearings and they wont watch these either. And, most Americans dont want Impeachment. Political experts say it wont matter, and in fact will help trump. One- the middle one. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/187 "2019-09-16T21:30:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But he’d have proof, since the senate will vote Not Guilty- making him…Not Guilty. > > Most political experts say the same. I have included cites in this thread. > > No, they are looking for enuf evidence to perhaps get some republicans to vote Guilty. It’s a long shot, but why not continue investigating? > > “With the whole nation watching”…? It is to laugh. No, they didnt watch the Mueller hearings and they wont watch these either. And, most Americans dont want Impeachment. So you say. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/188 "2019-09-16T22:32:31Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > So you say. No, so polls say: [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/458530-poll-majority-want-trump-out-but-not-through-impeachment](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/458530-poll-majority-want-trump-out-but-not-through-impeachment) \* A majority of voters wants to see a new president in the White House, according to a new poll, but 59 percent say President Trump should not be impeached. Fifty-seven percent of respondents said it is time to have a new president, according to a Monmouth University poll released Thursday. However, only 35 percent said they think Trump should be impeached. Democrats overwhelmingly backed impeachment, at 72 percent. Only 39 percent of independents and 8 percent of Republicans agree, based on the poll. Overall support for impeachment has ranged between 35 and 42 percent since Monmouth started polling that question in July 2017.\* > **[Poll: Majority of Americans don't want Trump to be impeached and removed from...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/08/22/poll-majority-americans-dont-want-donald-trump-impeached/2090155001/)** > > A majority of Americans oppose impeachment of President Donald Trump and his removal from office, according to a poll out Thursday. Rep. Jerry Nadler, D-N.Y., also asked other House committee chairs Thursday to provide records that would help in... > **[Majority of Americans don't want Trump to be impeached, new poll finds](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/majority-of-americans-dont-want-trump-to-be-impeached-new-poll-finds/)** > > Despite Trump's low approval ratings, most Americans do not wish to see him removed from office through impeachment > **[Support for impeachment at lowest level of 35%: Poll - Washington Examiner](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/washington-secrets/799490/support-for-impeachment-at-lowest-level-of-35-poll/)** > > While some 2020 Democrats and House leaders are eager to open impeachment hearings against President Trump, the public has lost interest.According to the latest Monmouth University Poll, which has been tracking the issue, 59% disagree with the... \*While some 2020 Democrats and House leaders are eager to open impeachment hearings against President Trump, the public has lost interest. According to the latest Monmouth University Poll, which has been tracking the issue, 59% disagree with the Democrats, and just 35% agree. “Support for the president’s removal via impeachment has ranged between 35% and 42% since Monmouth started asking this question in July 2017, with the current results at the low end of that range,” said the analysis. What’s more, only 1 in 5 think impeachment will lead to a Senate conviction and removal from office. “Donald Trump is not a popular president by most measures, but the appetite for impeachment remains low,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute. Added polling expert Ron Faucheux, author of a daily statistical newsletter, “Impeachment is a loser issue for Democrats.”\* ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/189 "2019-09-16T22:59:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, so polls say: > [https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/458530-poll-majority-want-trump-out-but-not-through-impeachment](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/458530-poll-majority-want-trump-out-but-not-through-impeachment) > \* > A majority of voters wants to see a new president in the White House, according to a new poll, but 59 percent say President Trump should not be impeached. > > Fifty-seven percent of respondents said it is time to have a new president, according to a Monmouth University poll released Thursday. However, only 35 percent said they think Trump should be impeached. > > Democrats overwhelmingly backed impeachment, at 72 percent. Only 39 percent of independents and 8 percent of Republicans agree, based on the poll. > > Overall support for impeachment has ranged between 35 and 42 percent since Monmouth started polling that question in July 2017.\* > > [Poll: Majority of Americans don't want Donald Trump to be impeached](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/08/22/poll-majority-americans-dont-want-donald-trump-impeached/2090155001/) > > [Majority of Americans don't want Trump to be impeached, new poll finds - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/majority-of-americans-dont-want-trump-to-be-impeached-new-poll-finds/) > > [Support for impeachment at lowest level of 35%: Poll - Washington Examiner](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/poll-support-for-impeachment-at-lowest-level-35) > \*While some 2020 Democrats and House leaders are eager to open impeachment hearings against President Trump, the public has lost interest. > > According to the latest Monmouth University Poll, which has been tracking the issue, 59% disagree with the Democrats, and just 35% agree. > > “Support for the president’s removal via impeachment has ranged between 35% and 42% since Monmouth started asking this question in July 2017, with the current results at the low end of that range,” said the analysis. > > What’s more, only 1 in 5 think impeachment will lead to a Senate conviction and removal from office. > > “Donald Trump is not a popular president by most measures, but the appetite for impeachment remains low,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute. > > Added polling expert Ron Faucheux, author of a daily statistical newsletter, “Impeachment is a loser issue for Democrats.”\* That’s why we need leadership. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/190 "2019-09-17T00:38:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But he’d have proof, since the senate will vote Not Guilty- making him…Not Guilty. It’ll be like the trials of the killers of 1960s civil rights workers in the South. They were acquitted, but whether you believed the verdict was right depended on where you stood. > [@](#): > > Most political experts say the same. I have included cites in this thread. I didn’t know there was a well-defined universe of ‘political experts’ to be able to reach any conclusions about what ‘most’ of them say. Were they polled? What was the sample size? And what was the sampling frame? Seriously, that’s one truly bullshit statement. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/191 "2019-09-17T03:19:53Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … > I didn’t know there was a well-defined universe of ‘political experts’ to be able to reach any conclusions about what ‘most’ of them say. Were they polled? What was the sample size? And what was the sampling frame? > > Seriously, that’s one truly bullshit statement. Well, it’s better than your bare opinion, with nothing to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/192 "2019-09-17T20:35:01Z")
mr nadler needs to get tough on things like today’s inquiry. start holding them in civil contempt, and levy fines. this is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/193 "2019-09-18T00:04:32Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > He can say anything he wants - First Amendment, you know. He can say it today if he wants. > … You might ask yourself why he isn’t currently claiming that the Senate has acquitted him of all charges, since, as you note, he could be claiming that today. Possibly it’s because he knows that actual headlines will be more influential than anything he could say. _Senate Acquits Trump_ will reach the millions who barely pay attention to politics, in a way that Trump’s usual blortings cannot. > [@DrDeth](#): > > But he’d have proof, since the senate will vote Not Guilty- making him…Not Guilty. > Most political experts say the same. I have included cites in this thread. > > No, they are looking for enuf evidence to perhaps get some republicans to vote Guilty. It’s a long shot, but why not continue investigating? > > **“With the whole nation watching”…? It is to laugh. No, they didnt watch the Mueller hearings and they wont watch these either.** And, most Americans dont want Impeachment. > Political experts say it wont matter, and in fact will help trump. … ^This. Particularly the emphasized (by me) part. The fantasy that millions of Americans will put down their phones and game-controllers and other devices and make their way to C-SPAN (which I’d bet money is the only outlet that would show impeachment hearings in anything like complete coverage) is as persistent as it is ridiculous. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > … (And yes, I’ve already shared this opinion with my Congressperson. I think the people who answer his phone **have come to recognize my voice**.) Please tell me you use a Groucho voice! (my emphasis in the quotes) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/194 "2019-09-18T13:02:18Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > mr nadler needs to get tough on things like today’s inquiry. start holding them in civil contempt, and levy fines. this is ridiculous. Agreed. If this is the best Nadler et. al. can do, they are fucked from the beginning. He needs to recall the goofball Lewandowski, demand answers, and if he brings up his bullshit executive privilege defenses again and refuses to answer, have him thrown in jail for contempt of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/195 "2019-09-18T13:08:42Z")
That will never happen. It’s gonna go just like yesterday for another year, then we’ll have an election. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/196 "2019-09-18T13:43:03Z")
If they feel other witnesses will pull the same bullshit, it’s gonna have to happen or obviously as I said they are fucked. Since I believe they will continue to hold these hearings, I believe they will also try to find ways to force witnesses to answer questions and that it won’t go just like yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/197 "2019-09-18T14:50:03Z")
I hope it doesn’t. But I have no faith that it won’t. Except for a couple of bulldogs (AOC for one), these House Democrats seem to be disappointing me like rooting for a crappy sports team in a game they’re flubbing. I also know this is no game. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/198 "2019-09-18T16:08:36Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I also know this is no game. As much as it pains me to say so, after a long life of watching these things play out, oh it is ABSOLUTELY a game. Rules? Laws? Pshaw! The game is about raw political power. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/199 "2019-09-18T18:19:47Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Agreed. If this is the best Nadler et. al. can do, they are fucked from the beginning. He needs to recall the goofball Lewandowski, demand answers, and if he brings up his bullshit executive privilege defenses again and refuses to answer, **have him thrown in jail for contempt of Congress.** Nadler doesn’t have the votes to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697/200 "2019-09-18T18:44:15Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Nadler doesn’t have the votes to do so. I believe under inherent contempt someone can actually be hauled off to jail without a vote. Not sure. But no matter. Nadler must at least attempt getting a contempt citation going, or just give it up. That is the gist of what I’m saying. No more just going along with whatever bullshit a witness tries to pull. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-judiciary-impeachment-case-discussion-thread/837697.md?page=11)