# The House Of Representative's Power **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313 "2013-10-04T00:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/1 "2013-10-04T00:30:53Z")
From another forum… > [@](#): > > What the House should pass in relation to Obamacare are articles of impeachment. Send them to the Senate and let the government shut down until the Senate does the impeachment trial. > > In fuller form, a strategy along these lines would be like this: > > The House will return no further bill to fund government operations, until the following conditions are satisfied: > > 1. President Obama resigns from office, or is removed by impeachment, or by death or incapacity. > > 2. Vice-President Biden, or President Biden if he should attain that office, resigns from office, or is removed by impeachment, or by death or incapacity. If anyone wants a clear illustration of how fucked-up this situation is, and how indubitably the republicans are at fault, this is pretty much as clear-cut as it’s going to get. If this sounds like extortion to you, then please explain the difference between this and demanding a defunding/delay of the PPACA. I submit going forward as a result that the American political system is irreperably broken, and that it desperately needs a complete overhaul of, among other things: - The Budget - The Debt Ceiling - The interaction between the houses of congress and the president ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/2 "2013-10-04T01:25:52Z")
But how can we know if the overhauled and reformed system won’t have its own flaws, which might end up being worse? If we give the President more power, then aren’t we at risk of him shutting down the government if he doesn’t get his way? An impeachment is perfectly in order. It also cannot possibly succeed; the Senate isn’t going to shift that violently in its make-up. (I asked in another thread, and was never answered: if the House impeached, could the Senate simply vote to dismiss the charges, and bypass the annoying false-drama of the trial? If the votes aren’t there, why go through the whole charade?) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/3 "2013-10-04T01:35:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > But how can we know if the overhauled and reformed system won’t have its own flaws, which might end up being worse? If we give the President more power, then aren’t we at risk of him shutting down the government if he doesn’t get his way? > > An impeachment is perfectly in order. It also cannot possibly succeed; the Senate isn’t going to shift that violently in its make-up. > > (I asked in another thread, and was never answered: if the House impeached, could the Senate simply vote to dismiss the charges, and bypass the annoying false-drama of the trial? If the votes aren’t there, why go through the whole charade?) But that’s just it - the House makes its position clear: until the articles of impeachment pass, we will not participate in governance and the government will continue to be shut down. What’s the counterplay? How do you react to that? Just wait another two years? And is this a legitimate strategy on behalf of the house? That the new system might have flaws is a given, but the fact is that the current system is simply completely untenable. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/4 "2013-10-04T02:27:20Z")
They could do that. They could simply vote to adjourn. The House could vote to hold no more hearings, meetings, sessions, or anything. Everybody go home. No laws could pass, no funding, nothing. They don’t have to tie it to an impeachment. They could tie it to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ if they want. If that happens, then the only recourse would be recall elections in those states that have those, or else just waiting till the elections of '14. Or massive rioting, an army coup, a non-military coup, a Chinese invasion, or something else nicely off-the-wall. Much more likely is that the budget impasse extends to meet up with the debt limit impasse, and both get resolved with minor concessions from both sides, just enough to save face. Two weeks of absurd false drama. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/5 "2013-10-04T02:35:18Z")
Moved to Elections from Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/6 "2013-10-04T02:56:00Z")
Well, if they adjourned, Obama could call them back into session. I think most people would consider that a proper use of his Article II, section 3 powers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/7 "2013-10-04T03:01:30Z")
The biggest obstacle here isn’t procedural, it’s historical. Most Representatives would recognize this for what it is: an abuse of the House’s power that is so enormous I think you could reasonable call it an attempted coup. Even if you pretend the Tea Party contingent would support an idea like this, the rest of the Republicans wouldn’t, so it would be voted down. After that the pro-impeachement gang would simply be cut out of the budget negotiations. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/8 "2013-10-04T03:20:46Z")
Is this thread mocking the Republican positron that the shutdown is Obama/the democrats` fault because the republicans are merely employing crafty, but p proper and legitimate democratic processes? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/9 "2013-10-04T15:09:02Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > If anyone wants a clear illustration of how fucked-up this situation is, and how indubitably the republicans are at fault, this is pretty much as clear-cut as it’s going to get. Eh. You can find crazy-ass shit wrt any subject on the intertoobs. Not seeing why this is particularly compelling. ---
**Author:** ![DagNation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@DagNation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DagNation)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/10 "2013-10-04T15:59:20Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > From another forum… > > I submit going forward as a result that the American political system is irreperably broken, and that it desperately needs a complete overhaul of, among other things: > > - The Budget > - The Debt Ceiling > - The interaction between the houses of congress and the president I contend that this could all be improved by having real, low, and strict limits on campaign finance - It is ridiculous that a single person can donate ~$120K to a single candidate (per election cycle) when the mean income is in the range of $50K - this excludes most of us from equal participation in the process. Super PACs are even worse, they make it so that a few billionaires can hold the moderate republicans in safe districts hostage. The recent relaxing of campaign finance rules is, in my opinion, the most anti-democratic force in America right now. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/11 "2013-10-04T16:05:44Z")
I was under the impression that the House and Senate were supposed to negotiate a budget and then pass it on to the President. The House is where the budget originates, they craft the initial bill, but the Senate has to approve it. The Senate, being Democratic, will not pass a budget that does not fund Obamacare. So the House refuses to pass a budget of any kind, ending negotiations. What I see here is the House making a major power play, attempting to become the only branch of government that matters, especially with their mini-bills that fund the programs they like. If this succeeds, then ONLY programs which the House approves of will be funded. The Presidency and the Senate will be reduced to vestigial appendages, able to act only on those programs the House is willing to fund. Does anyone see any flaws in this logic? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/12 "2013-10-04T16:16:12Z")
The flaw is that the Senate can say “we’re not funding the government one program at a time. If you don’t want to take the flack for popular stuff being shut down, pass a whole CR/budget.” That’s more or less what’s happening right now. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-house-of-representatives-power/670313/13 "2013-10-04T16:18:27Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (I asked in another thread, and was never answered: if the House impeached, could the Senate simply vote to dismiss the charges, and bypass the annoying false-drama of the trial? If the votes aren’t there, why go through the whole charade?) I believe there would need to be a cloture vote at some point. That would give a lot of senators room to vote ‘for impeachment’ without any danger of a trial.