I don’t know. I thought we were Jewish, and that circ was a part of it. But back then ‘Jewish’ meant church to me. I thought pretty much everyone was Jewish.
Again, by not putting it behind you, you are letting it rule your life.
YOU.
What happened to you was beyond your control, or is now.
How you respond to it IS within your control, and you’re letting it affect other areas of your life.
Not good, kiddo. Find a way out of it.
Not that it’s bad, good or indifferent, but I thought this whole foreskin restoration movement was (demographically) primarily a procedure pursued by a subset of gay and bisexual men who were obsessed by the topic. If gay men are about 5% of the population it seems they were about 95% of this movements demographic.
Are there a substantial number of straight men for whom this (pursuing restoration procedures) is really an issue?
They’re not MY associations. Look it up for yourself - or better yet, let me google it for you. See how all the definitions that aren’t actual flowers are to do with gay men, or imply that a lack of courage is somehow related to homosexuality, and are insulting, derogatory, pejorative? That’s the word you chose to use. Why the hell would anyone trust you and click on a link you’d only described as “rape me”, and how does that relate to their sexuality, or for that matter their courage as you claim the whole world (apart from me and all the cites I can find) would understand it? And as for you not breaking the “don’t be a jerk” rule - you’ve broken it so many ways I can’t even be bothered to tell you about them.
Quote:
A remedy for masturbation which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment. In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement.
(John Harvey Kellogg, M.D., “Treatment for Self-Abuse and its Effects,” Plain Fact for Old and Young. Burlington, Iowa: F. Segner & Co. (1888). P. 295)
That Doc Kellogg-he had some STRANGE ideas…what did he advocate for girls?
Uh, ralph124c? Try reading the last line of that quote again.
I’m pissed that the OP seems to be comparing circumcision to rape – if that IS his intent?
That makes a little more sense since he’s talking about doing it at an age where they are already masturbating and would remember it. I was completely stumped how infant circumcision would reduce or stop masturbating.
Wow. I can honestly say I can’t understand why this is such a big deal. To anyone. I’ve been circumcised, and until I came upon this thread I had scarcely given this fact a moment’s thought. The most I can say is that when I looked at photos of non-circumcised penises, I prefered mine because it looked more normal(to me). But that was the extent of my thought processes regarding my being circumsized until about twnty minutes ago.
Now that I HAVE put more than a moment’s thought into this issue(thank you for that btw, Dope 
), it boils down to three things for me:
- Circumcising in infancy, when done correctly, produces no negative physical side effects. Reputable studies regarding increased sexual pleasure in uncircumcised vs. circumcised males have proven, at best, inconclusive.
- There is a solid case that it provides positive side effects in regard to hygiene. For example: My uncle(who was not circumcised) developed hygiene issues as a kid, and was circumcised for medical reasons at the age of 6.
- An infant will find it less traumatizing than an older child or adult.
Based on these facts, I’m glad I was circumcised. GLAD, do you hear me?!
I’m glad you are at least that much self-aware. You did, however, have a hiatus and come back and do it again, relatively recently.
I have no objection to slagging Tony Hayward or the board of BP. It’s just that you can’t leave it there, can you? Not only do you fail to acknowledge the international nature of the organization, you fail to acknowledge US involvement in what went wrong too, and you extended your hatred it to an entire population. Which is both evidence of your latent bigotry/racism/jerkishness, and also completely illogical.
That said, I’m not pissed off by you in the least. I regret to say I’m laughing at you. My post about BP upthread was of course meant to push your buttons with relation to your other bizarrre obsession.
I’m sorry you were circumcised and that it upsets you that you were. For the record I oppose it on principle too, and particularly don’t think religious-inspired mutilation should be give a free pass, though the HIV infection rate thing does seem to be a fortunate byproduct of barbarism.
That aside, based purely on your posts on the SDMB in the absence of any other evidence - and I’m not saying this to insult, but to be honest - you seem like a person with very little social ability, and I genuinely think you have some problems to do with obsessiveness, which I hope you are able to confront and work through.
I am quite surprised by the responses in this thread. If cutting off a part of my penis does not amount to a sexual assault I don’t know what does.
Whatever jjimm. My social life is fine, I’m sure I am more nutz here than in rl because I don’t bring up most of this in rl, but hey glad you’re enjoying the show. And it appears that ‘Victorian anti-masturbation hysteria’ traces back to… Britain. More bad news on top of a history of bad news. But like I said, one can’t generalize about the present generation from that, but you could help me further solidify this view if you displayed more movements of the soul than vacillation between stiff lip and schadenfreude.
The people who are glad they were cut I think are still in denial. I shouldn’t try to disturb your contentment except that you’re likely to continue the practice. Hygiene is not a good reason to amputate a body part. Know which body parts get really dirty? Hands, so why not cut those off? This reason is so unbelievably stupid that I just have to stop.
Looks better? Hey good for you but I think unnecessary cosmetic surgery is shallow and certainly wouldn’t impose it on someone else. How rude! How insulting!
Sexual satisfaction? Who knows? Apparently it is the most nerve-dense piece of skin on the body, and considering the creepy notions the ancients had about these things I’d rather not follow in their footsteps regarding unnecessary, non-voluntary amputations. Really.
Less traumatizing done in infancy? Pffft. Why don’t we perform more random surgeries on infants then? Let me guess, doctors make $$$ with this and that is the real reason it is done. Was it P T Barnum who said there is a sucker born every minute? I’m sure it has sped up since his time. Or maybe routine personal care is truly beyond the ken of the yokels who defend this practice. Shit, come on over for the game, we will be passing around some low-dose chemo until everyone’s hair falls out, you’ll function fine without it and besides, hair gets dirty…
As for the responses along the lines of “It raises too many questions” or “You need psychological help if you resist the involuntary amputation of part of your penis”, well I hope those people will take the time to consider a blurb from (British) writer Isaiah Berlin’s ‘Political Ideas of the Twentieth Century’:
You guys creep me out. I feel like I could use your responses to this issue as substance for an argument that the US is tilting fascist. Please think harder.
It is hard to get along with anyone in a thread like this, I’m sure it will all go more smoothly in the next topic. But- Does anyone have an actually good reason to circumcise and not just some silly idea you’ve subscribed to that fails to justify involuntary, unnecessary infant amputations?
Yes, but not without consent. So, not on an infant, no. My husband had both his sons circumsized because he himself had so many problems with a too tight frenulum/foreskin/whatever it’s called that he underwent circumcision himself at 24 and gained much relief from it, but I’d still want to wait to see if the kids had problems before going that route. I see no reason to assume a problem that doesn’t exist yet. Most of the reasons people give for circumcising their male children have female counterparts, but no one’s going around circumcising labia just to avoid yeast infections.
BTW, I, female, got my only yeast infection from my boyfriend, who was uncircumcised. I’ve dated about 60/40 percent circumcised/uncut men, and out of all of them only my husband and the one with the yeast infection had any problems with their foreskins. So…yeah. Worth waiting and seeing, in my opinion.
Edit to add: the OP is the only one I’ve heard complain about it, though.
I once had a job at the zoo circumcising baby elephants. The pay was lousy but the tips were huge!
D&R
I’ve already told you I’m on your side in principle.
However, “be nice to me then I won’t be racist towards British people” is pathetic.
My soul is unmoved not because I’m British, but because you are a raving trashbat.
Try2B Comprehensive I thought we were in the Pit. My comment withdrawn with my apologies.
Yep.
OK.
As an infant, I was probably so utterly terrifed of being outside my mother’s womb, I doubt the circumcision even broke the top 10 of my greatest concerns as I was first confronted with the world. If I had been confronted with the prospect once I was old enough to undertand it, the very idea that ANYONE would even *consider *cutting off a piece of my penis would have scared out of my unholy wits. Overall, my circumsision was, yes, less traumatizing to me as an infant than it ever would have been as a child.
No.
Not one that you would accept as logical, humane or as anything other than what you wish to percieve it as.
Remember what forum you’re in, jjimm, and dial it back some.
Holy misplaced anger Batman!
Firstly, you should consider a blog. Seriously. Reread you OP, where’s the question?
Secondly, I hope you never have cause to fully understand that your foreskin removal, while done without your consent, is magnitudes distant from actual rape and all it’s horrors. Odd tact for someone who feels everyone is diminishing his suffering.
Thirdly, shouldn’t you be raging at your parents instead of us? You weren’t kidnapped by gypsies and forcibly circumcised, after all. You parents chose this for you. Yes, societal norms, different times, yada, yada, doesn’t change that your parents agreed to this.
So if this is something you just can’t get past, your cross to bear, etc, shouldn’t we be spared your impotent rage, in favour of you having a blog?
You’re reasoning is not really rational, you’re not making much sense, you’re not going to change minds, and clearly not going to change yours. You’re a grown man, for Christ’s sake, let it go. Some day soon real suffering may come into your life. In fact, you keep up your whining and it’s almost a guarantee, I’d say.
Does circumcision result in a MORE sensitive penis?
One could conclude that cutting off the pupace means that more of the meatus is exposed-and more frictionmeans more stimulation=better, more intense orgasms.
Perhaps “cut is better”!
I had to step away and abstract the issue. I’d apologize but it doesn’t look like anyone minded…
That is hard to believe if you look at the facts. Check out Losses from Circumcision:
It does strike me as a uniquely British project to seek to surgically steal other people’s feelings, and then condescend about it.
But on that topic- no, I am not racist. As I pointed out, I am part English myself. Can a person be racist against their own race? I dunno, maybe, but that isn’t the case here. My issue is with the culture and the enormous number of crappy things Britain has done to the world- yes, mostly in the dead past- but in this case it appears I was sexually maimed by 19th century Britain. Why anyone is shocked I would take that personally is surprising, there is more, but first…
Not rape? The point isn’t the perceived trauma of the event. Yes, infant amnesia means you don’t remember the procedure (which is why I now advocate appendectomies for all infants (not really, for the irony impaired)). The point is not which experience is more traumatic. I am sure rape is more experientially traumatic. But, and I mean no offense to rape victims here, rape does not result in the permanent removal of any body parts. My point is that cutting off a part of my penis is a serious sexual assault, and so is rape, even though there are obvious differences. Making them compete is a distraction.
Let’s see… misplaced anger… that is correct. I was in denial, and now I am not (as much at least). There is more going on with this than circumcision. My denial was shielding what you might say was part of my ‘self-concept’. Shedding it meant more than just facing the truth about circumcision, psychologically for me anyway. A lot of my categories are now screwed up, a process that went on for some time, that is probably still going on and which generated a lot of anger that didn’t have a direct object. But this is a ‘how I feel’ thread and I intended to follow it wherever it went.
I think this issue challenges other people’s self-concept too. Parents who do this to their children may have nice jobs and cars and clothes and etc, but frankly they are participating in ritual genital mutilation and are unthinking, bad-in-a-way parents. Sorry. The answer isn’t to shut me up, it is to face yourselves and quit doing this to people.
I think this challenges jjimm’s self concept too, insofar as it has to do with Britain. Maybe you guys don’t admit to all the suffering your culture has wrought? Just hide it all away somewhere and forget it? Well I don’t know if you’ll understand but it is far more a personal issue than an issue with a specific, identifiable set of Brits. I’m influenced by it too. What sucks about Britain sucks about my own self-concept, to a point, and that’s the main reason it comes up, and not a (purely) factual basis for prejudice against British culture. We oughta have a few beers and get into a bar fight sometime, jjimm, hash this all out. I’m sure you’re not all bad.
Getting back to elbows- No I shouldn’t be mad at my parents. I don’t think they should have been allowed this choice any more than they should be allowed to choose to have my feet removed. It is a cultural thing, one that I do hope to change people’s minds about but of course we have to remain realistic about it. Yes I am a grown man- part of my point is how much inertia denial can have. I’m an introspective philosophical kind of guy and it took me this long to think to un-do this bit of denial. How long will it take less reflective types to connect the dots on this? They probably won’t. The route to take isn’t to change everyone’s minds, but to take this choice away from the yokels who unthinkingly make it. Ban circumcision except when justified (and maybe for Jews, I still haven’t heard their explanation for it). We don’t make people eunuchs anymore, right?
Should you be spared my impotent rage? The way to do that is to root this denial out of the culture and quit amputating parts of infants’ bodies. To identify this with me, or to believe shutting me down ends the issue is also misdirected.
Instead of assuming things, why not spit out your reasons for us to examine?
Dude – get help.