# The human side of Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680 "2003-01-04T23:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/1 "2003-01-04T23:25:15Z")
Since Jesus was half-human, is it possible that he ever made mistakes? I acknowledge his divinity. But how do we acknowledge his humanity if we describe him as “perfect”? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/2 "2003-01-04T23:26:46Z")
Is this like the Softer Side of Sears™? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HomeSlice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9d8465/32.png) [@HomeSlice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HomeSlice)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/3 "2003-01-05T01:13:34Z")
Jesus was not perfect. He did make mistakes. He was a man. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/4 "2003-01-05T01:22:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Jesus was not perfect. He did make mistakes. He was a man. Scripture alleges otherwise, for what authority it may or may not bring to this issue. What’s always been key to me is that **He went through everything that we do**. I can imagine Him at 16 or so sitting around in a bull session talking about God, girls, and how wrongheaded the Herodians running the country are. He experienced all the emotions we do. He no doubt woke up with “morning wood” and felt a bit guilty about it. If Luke is any authority, the last 24 hours of His life, He felt doubt, shakiness of faith. What He did do was persevere, keep on trying to get His message across. And the fact that we are exchanging views in this thread indicates some degree of success in His accomplishing that. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/5 "2003-01-05T03:36:35Z")
> [@](#): > > from Polycarp: > He went through everything that we do. Well, maybe with the exception of PMS… But you have put your finger on the reason why I feel more at ease with my conception of him than I do with any understanding that I might have of God the Father. Mostly I think that our ideas of God are too small. Jesus seems more knowable. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Cadet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Space\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/6 "2003-01-05T03:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Jesus seems more knowable. Maybe because he, unlike god, was actually real? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/7 "2003-01-05T04:22:12Z")
There was a very interesting old thread along these same lines…either “What if God were one of us?” or “What if Jesus were one of us?”, I don’t remember which. Let’s see… [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=173&highlight=jesus) part of it. (Hey, whaddaya know, I myself was a contributor! 😉 ) If it got moved to Great Debates and continued there, I can’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/8 "2003-01-05T20:36:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HomeSlice \* > \*\*Jesus was not perfect. He did make mistakes. He was a man. \*\* For we have not an high priest (Jesus) which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, **yet without sin.** Hebrews 4:15 Jesus made no mistakes, nor did He sin. He was perfect. If He had sinned, He wouldn’t be able to pay the penalty for ours. Only a perfect, unblemished lamb is fit for sacrifce and Jesus is the perfect Lamb of God. As to who Jesus was and is: Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy, **great is the mystery** of godlinesss: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Also see John 1:1-3,10,14 The trinity is a mystery and you could debate forever about how it all works. I believe it on faith. Nothing can be more clear than “God was maninfest in the flesh” or “in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/9 "2003-01-05T20:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*For we have not an high priest (Jesus) which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, **yet without sin.** Hebrews 4:15 > > Jesus made no mistakes, nor did He sin. He was perfect. If He had sinned, He wouldn’t be able to pay the penalty for ours. Only a perfect, unblemished lamb is fit for sacrifce and Jesus is the perfect Lamb of God. > \*\* **His4Ever** , sin and mistake are two different things. I can invest in a stock that tanks. That was a mistake, but it wasn’t a sin. I can miss the exit on the highway driving home. That’s a mistake, but no sin. Likewise, if one sins deliberately, then it’s a sin, but no mistake. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/10 "2003-01-05T20:48:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* Only a perfect, unblemished lamb is fit for sacrifce > \*\* Not so sure about that. In my (rather extensive) study of Jewish sacrificial law, I could have sworn that besides lambs, goats, bulls, cows, birds, flour, oats and oils were fit for sacrifices as well… …and then there’s the matter of the fact that Jesus wasn’t actually (literally) a lamb either, nor was he offered on the altar, properly slaughtered, etc., but I’ll let that go for now… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/11 "2003-01-05T21:28:17Z")
Ah…no blemishes eh? So He wasn’t an ordinary teen? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/12 "2003-01-05T21:54:26Z")
_squeeze_ POP! ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/13 "2003-01-05T22:26:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*Not so sure about that. In my (rather extensive) study of Jewish sacrificial law, I could have sworn that besides lambs, goats, bulls, cows, birds, flour, oats and oils were fit for sacrifices as well… > > …and then there’s the matter of the fact that Jesus wasn’t actually (literally) a lamb either, nor was he offered on the altar, properly slaughtered, etc., but I’ll let that go for now… > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* My understanding of Jewish sacrifices is that they served two purposes. An offering to God and then food for the Rabbi and poor. Jesus was not offered as such and certainly not eaten afterwards. The sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of the world is purely doctrine, nothing else, in my opinion. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/14 "2003-01-05T22:55:17Z")
**Zoe** , some of the passages in the Gospel which I take most comfort from are the ones in the Garden of Gethsemane (I hope that doesn’t sound as pompous to you as it does to me!). I’m sure Christ made mistakes, even if they were as simple as getting the wrong answer when doing math or failing to [Bugs Bunny voice on] “take a left turn at Gethsemane.” [Bugs Bunny voice off] In Gethemane, he faced friends who couldn’t manage to stay awake through the long night of anticipation of the horror to come and the knowledge that one who He loved greatly would betray Him. Peter may not have believed it, but Christ knew. Matthew, Mark, and Luke all record Him saying “Father, if it be Thy will, take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” Matthew has Him saying it twice. Here, to me, is the essence of Christ’s dual nature. Jesus, the human being, knows that soon he will face unspeakable pain and suffering which he does not deserve. He doesn’t want to endure this. Nevertheless, Jesus, the Deity, is willing and able to do what He is required to do that God’s will may be fulfilled. He is very much tempted and knows what it is not to want to do what must be done, yet He does not yield to that temptation but insteads fulfills God’s will. This still leaves this mortal in awe. As to blemishes, **vanilla** , I’ll leave the expertise on Jewish law to Zev, but maybe it means without blemish at the time? In other words, maybe Christ had acne but got over it?😉 I know as a teenager I found the idea that Christ had also been one _incredibly_ comforting. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/15 "2003-01-06T01:58:26Z")
I once had to explain to a terrified seven-year-old that he could too be brave. I told him the story of how his mother, whom I’d known when she was a little girl, got over her fear of the dark, and then said that I knew that if she could, he could too. And I told him that bravery is not doing something without fear, it’s being scared enough that you’re about to mess your pants and going ahead and doing it anyway, because it’s gotta be done, and you know that you’re the one that has to do it. He went back to bed saying, more or less, “You better look out, monsters, 'cause \*I’m” coming!" 🙂 Jesus faced fear, doubt, desolation, and despair in Gethsemane. And he faced them down – by being faith-full in the same way as that boy “became” brave – by looking his obstacles straight in the eye and saying, in effect, you’re not going to defeat me. No doubt the Holy Spirit comforted and strengthened Jesus, the same as he does us – but no more so. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/16 "2003-01-06T02:30:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*My understanding of Jewish sacrifices is that they served two purposes. An offering to God and then food for the Rabbi and poor. Jesus was not offered as such and certainly not eaten afterwards. The sacrifice of Jesus for the sins of the world is purely doctrine, nothing else, in my opinion. \*\* It depends on the sacrifice. Certain sacrifices had parts of it put on the altar and certain parts of it eaten, while others were burned in their entirety. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/17 "2003-01-06T02:39:09Z")
**Zev** , here or elsewhere it’d be interesting to get into a discussion of why Christians (obviously) feel that Jesus is/was the Messiah, and what expectations of the Messiah Jews feel that Jesus did not meet. I think **Chaim** addressed this in a post from ages ago, but I didn’t find it in a quick-and-dirty search. I’d be interested in an intelligent discussion of the subject. You probably can expect a fair amount of witnessing as to “prophecies that Jesus fulfilled” if you do decide to get into it, though. Since I’m to a certain extent putting you active Jews who are Dopers on the spot, I’ll leave you to open the discussion if you see fit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/18 "2003-01-06T03:54:54Z")
**lekatt:** > [@](#): > > Jesus was not offered as such and certainly not eaten afterwards. Oh? Then what’s this “transubstantiation” thing I keep hearing about? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/19 "2003-01-06T12:39:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe because he, unlike god, was actually real? If, I may humbly request, it, could we leave out such pointless remarks as this one? They serve no purpose other than to snipe, having no debatable virtue, and moreover contribute nothing to the debate. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680/20 "2003-01-06T12:57:18Z")
I take it zev’s point about sin vs. mistake has been accepted? I _believe_ this is the stance of the Catholic church, also, namely that Christ did not sin, but that he made other mistakes just like any person. Polycarp, there’s a book called “Judaisms and Their Messiahs” by Neusner, Green and Frerichs which goes into this. I confess to not getting all the way through it, since apparently there were many different Jewish concepts of what a Messiah should be, and I started to get bogged down. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-human-side-of-jesus/146680.md?page=2)