# The Hunter Biden Investigation {thread started in 2019}, Hunter Pardoned on December 1, 2024
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [September 28, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964 "2019-09-28T19:54:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 65
### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1283 "2024-06-07T15:47:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> > [@PhillyGuy](#):
> >
> > Plus Hunter was unlucky when an honest dumpster diver turned in his gun to police.
>
> More like: Hunter was unlucky when an investigator went through hours of video surveillance tape and tracked down the guy who found the gun in a dumpster.
I see my post was in error there.
So if I understand correctly now, [Hallie first put the gun into the dumpster](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/06/hunter-biden-trial-gun-saga-00162226) outside [Janssen’s Market](https://janssensfinefoods.com/), the place near me where they sell the [Joe Biden Sandwich](https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/delaware-deli-sells-joe-biden-sandwich-in-honor-of-president-elect/) and, according to Politico,[the president still regularly stops by](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/06/delaware-hunter-biden-trial-00161859). Then she thought better of it and came back to do her own dumpster diving. Unlucky for Hunter. Then she didn’t find it and talked to the store manager. Very unlucky for Hunter. Then the manager did what any sane manager would do – call the police – and it went from there. The store had an actually working surveillance system, which would be bad luck for Hunter if a different dumpster, but I’m guessing is common behind such a high end store.
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1284 "2024-06-07T15:52:41Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> But what is happening with Hunter, in the gun and tax cases, is not Trump’s lock-em-up revenge. It is more the normal heightened scrutiny that can impact those associated with powerful political figures
I will simply say that i apparently have a more cynical view of this trial and leave it at that.
I have to wonder if it’s good for the Bidens to show up in court to support him. A) security risk And b) will it change any votes?
> **[‘This is their family’: Close-knit Bidens turn out for Hunter’s trial](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/-family-close-knit-bidens-turn-hunters-criminal-trial-rcna155915)**
>
> The show of force began with first lady Jill Biden, who is shuttling between Delaware and France to be in the courtroom.
---
### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1285 "2024-06-07T15:59:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> In what looney-tune land do people answer questions like that?
Welcome to contract law.
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### Author:  [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1286 "2024-06-07T16:02:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> doesn’t this come down to the fact that the question on the form is ambiguous at best?
Yep.
IANAL, but I believe the relevant law is this (_emphasis added_):
[18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922)
> (g) It shall be unlawful for any person -
>
> (3) who is an unlawful **user** of or **addicted** to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
>
> to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or **possess** in or affecting commerce, **any firearm or ammunition** ; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
According to [21 USC 802: Definitions (1)](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title21-section802&num=0&edition=prelim),
> The term “addict” means any individual who habitually uses any narcotic drug so as to endanger the public morals, health, safety, or welfare, or who is so far addicted to the use of narcotic drugs as to have lost the power of self-control with reference to his addiction.
Hmm, sounds like a lot of wiggle room, there. How did Biden “endanger the **public** morals”? Did he lose the power of self control? Seems hard to prove. It also seems like it’s perfectly lawful for someone to smoke crack and buy a firearm as long as the person is not endangering the public and still retains self-control of their actions.
But… then we have the term “user.” 21 USC 802 defines “ultimate user” but not “user.” However, I am not sure if “user” even needs to be defined. Perhaps the term “user” is what they’re getting Biden on. But why does the law mention endangering public morals and self control when “user” already covers that?
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### Author:  [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1287 "2024-06-07T16:05:16Z")
per cnn:
Defense attorney Abbe Lowell is walking through the federal form Hunter Biden filled out to purchase a firearm with Jason Turner, one of the former employees of the store.
Turner testified about how he processed the form from Hunter Biden and became frustrated with Lowell’s questions.
When asked what he was doing at a particular time when Hunter Biden bought the gun, Turner joked: “I put on my ritual robes and went and sat in a marble room.”
The store’s owner, Ronald Palimere, has now been called by the defense to testify.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1288 "2024-06-07T16:07:21Z")
Has anyone clarified about what (if any) changes were made to the form by the store employees/owner AFTER the purchase and AFTER Hunter had left?
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1289 "2024-06-07T16:08:21Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#):
>
> Prosecutors have raised several complaints that defense attorney Abbe Lowell is leading the witness, Hallie Biden
Huh, one of the things that I thought I remembered from my high school civics class some 35 years ago was that while leading the witness is forbidden in direct examination, it was allowed in cross. Did I remember wrong?
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### Author:  [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1290 "2024-06-07T16:10:06Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#):
>
> The term “addict” means any individual who habitually uses any narcotic drug so as to endanger the public morals, health, safety, or welfare, or who is so far addicted to the use of narcotic drugs as to have lost the power of self-control with reference to his addiction.
Thanks for your post, very helpful. Not to belabor this, but I can assure everyone that an addict can easily say “not me” to both parts of this definition, and believe it. @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness’s question is, I think, the key to reasonable doubt. And the lack of specificity in the form makes it tough to prove guilt in any event.
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1291 "2024-06-07T16:17:01Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> Are you a runner? No, as you can see, I am currently at this moment, standing still.
I think the answer we’re looking for is:
Are you a runner? No, I haven’t run today, and don’t plan on running ever again, I have quit running for good.
.
.
.
And this time, I mean it!
---
### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1292 "2024-06-07T16:21:54Z")
It’s like the opposite of being an actor. You’re always an actor, even if you never get a job doing it and spend your life waiting tables.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1293 "2024-06-07T16:23:19Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> What people?
>
> This special counsel, David Weiss, is, or was, a nominal Republican, but does not have a history of being “up in arms about the government and weaponizing the DOJ” that I have seen.
The people who complain about the DOJ being weaponized are the same people eager to see Hunter Biden locked away for life.
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### Author:  [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1294 "2024-06-07T16:27:06Z")
per cnn:
Toward the end of Jason Turner’s testimony, he acknowledged that there was something wrong with the ATF form from Hunter Biden’s gun purchase. However, he did not elaborate as to what was wrong with the form after objections from prosecutors.
This is part of the defense’s effort to scrutinize the form and the conduct of the gun store employees.
But the judge has prohibited Hunter Biden’s lawyers from directly revealing to the jury that the employees doctored the form three years later, to make sure it was compliant with federal law.
The original form wasn’t compliant because it relied solely on Hunter Biden’s passport as a form of identifcation. But Turner testified that passports need to be supplemented by another ID because they do not have an address listed.
Lowell is questioning Palimere about this topic as well.
Naomi Biden testified Friday about taking a trip to see her dad, Hunter Biden, while he was at a rehab facility in Los Angeles in the late summer of 2018.
“He just seemed really great,” she testified of seeing Biden and having lunch with him.
“I hadn’t seen my dad in a really long time,” she said, adding later that she was nervous to testify.
---
### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1295 "2024-06-07T16:27:13Z")
From the CNN entry -
> Witness acknowledges something was wrong with ATF form from Hunter Biden’s gun purchase, but doesn’t elaborate
> From CNN’s Holmes Lybrand, Marshall Cohen and Hannah Rabinowitz at the courthouse
>
> Toward the end of Jason Turner’s testimony, he acknowledged that there was something wrong with the ATF form from Hunter Biden’s gun purchase. However, he did not elaborate as to what was wrong with the form after objections from prosecutors.
>
> This is part of the defense’s effort to scrutinize the form and the conduct of the gun store employees.
>
> But the judge has prohibited Hunter Biden’s lawyers from directly revealing to the jury that the employees doctored the form three years later, to make sure it was compliant with federal law.
>
> The original form wasn’t compliant because it relied solely on Hunter Biden’s passport as a form of identifcation. But Turner testified that passports need to be supplemented by another ID because they do not have an address listed.
>
> Lowell is questioning Palimere about this topic as well.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1296 "2024-06-07T16:27:34Z")
So what if the gun had cocaine on it. So does [over 3/4 of our paper currency.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8835657/). It was in a fucking dumpster, it could have picked up anything.
As for the laptop, it was in corrupt hands for years now. Nothing on there should be admissable.
So he’s being strung up for checking a form that anyone who is not an addict would check and anyone who is an addict won’t have the capacity to know that he is.
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### Author:  [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1297 "2024-06-07T16:38:05Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#):
>
> But the judge has prohibited Hunter Biden’s lawyers from directly revealing to the jury that the employees doctored the form three years later, to make sure it was compliant with federal law
Does anyone know what the logic is for this ruling? Seems to this non-lawyer that once you establish that someone monkeyed with the form for any purpose, that makes all of it suspect. Why would that be off limits?
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1298 "2024-06-07T16:38:06Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> And this time, I mean it!
That would be a fair and reasonable way to answer the question.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1299 "2024-06-07T16:42:58Z")
> [@simster](#):
>
> But the judge has prohibited Hunter Biden’s lawyers from directly revealing to the jury that the employees doctored the form three years later, to make sure it was compliant with federal law.
Seriously? They’re prosecuting Hunter Biden based on a form that was altered after the fact? Was thils “alteration” of the form even legal?
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1300 "2024-06-07T16:43:17Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> anyone who is an addict won’t have the capacity to know that he is.
While I’m sure you could get your average person to nod their head to this statement - it sounds good and all - I’m reasonably sure that the average addict is not incapacitated 100% of the time. To be sure, I have no personal experience but, if they were, then how would they get more of their drugs? They must be able to function well enough to go, get money, coordinate a pickup location with their dealer, drive over/bus over to see the dealer, get back home, etc. The coordination part requires being able to string together words, maintain a phone (probably) and pay the bills on it.
I’d venture to guess that the average addict looks (at the most) like more like someone who has a cold and is a bit groggy, not like a passed out hobo, face-down in a puddle of vomit. And given that there are some addicts working professional jobs and secretly feeding their addiction without anyone knowing about it, even the “appearing a bit groggy” might not be true. The average addict, most of the time, might look and come across like anyone else.
This isn’t to deny that they have an issue. But they almost certainly do have periods of lucidity and, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the majority period of their days.
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### Author:  [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1301 "2024-06-07T16:46:07Z")
Noreika dismissed the defense’s argument, stating that the altered form was “irrelevant and inadmissible” and criticized Biden’s legal team for introducing “conspiratorial” theories and “unsupported rhetoric” about the motivations of the gun store employees.
“Any probative value it arguably has is substantially outweighed by a danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of issues, and misleading the jury,” she wrote. Noreika further emphasized that using the altered form to suggest political bias would be “unduly prejudicial and invites (jury) nullification.”
from here:
[Hunter Biden judge delivers major setbacks to defense in gun trial but Internet says ‘it’s all a show’ (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/hunter-biden-judge-delivers-major-setbacks-to-defense-in-gun-trial-but-internet-says-it-s-all-a-show/ar-BB1nwr66)
---
### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1302 "2024-06-07T16:46:29Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> They’re prosecuting Hunter Biden based on a form that was altered after the fact?
If I have this right, the form was processed and faxed in its original form. Then a few years later, the store altered the form because the original form didn’t include all of the data it was supposed to. I’m assuming that the complaint is based on the original form that was sent for processing, not the altered form, but the fact that the form needed to be altered throws the store in a poor light.
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