# The Hunter Biden Investigation {thread started in 2019}, Hunter Pardoned on December 1, 2024
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [September 28, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964 "2019-09-28T19:54:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 67
### Author:  [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1323 "2024-06-07T17:38:21Z")
The defense only needs to maintain reasonable doubt. I suspect their argument would be some form of “Gee, how can we believe the testimony of the prosecution’s witnesses, people who altered the very form in evidence?”
And judges aren’t finders of fact, juries are. He can rule evidence is inadmissible if its prejudicial impact outweighs its probative value. How in the world he’d come to that conclusion here, I have no idea.
But I’m not a lawyer, and perhaps there’s some established case law that somehow supports the idea that people who illegally altered the form in question, for any purpose, at any point, may not be questioned on that detail. If that doesn’t go to their credibility, not sure what would.
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### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1324 "2024-06-07T17:38:22Z")
> [@filmore](#):
>
> Asking an addict if they are an addict is like asking if someone if they are a narcissist.
Not all cocaine users are addicts. But [all are in violation of the law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922) if they continue to possess a firearm. I cannot see the wisdom in saying that addiction legalizes cocaine user gun ownership.
This may be a dumb form of gun control. I prefer may-issue with a required police interview. But IMHO it is better than nothing. If it should appear that there was jury nullification here, that would be a bad message to the general public.
I can see a split verdict where the jury acquits on the form check off box but convicts on gun possession.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1325 "2024-06-07T17:40:14Z")
Yeah, the only reason I could see this being important is to impeach the testimony of the dealer who claimed things like he told Biden to “take your time.” Which honestly, who gives a shit if he said that? I’m not a crackhead (and not in the “I can quit any time I want” sense), and if I’m filling a form out and someone tells me to take my time, even I might tune them out. A series of checkboxes that all have to be checked “no” before I get the thing I want is gonna look an awful lot like a series of hoops to jump through, to _anyone_. It’s a terrible way to gather the information they’re trying to gather, and I think we all know that.
But I don’t know whether that’s an actual defense against the charges. And I don’t think a later alteration of the form is especially important here.
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### Author:  [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1326 "2024-06-07T17:42:57Z")
We don’t know what they’d argue relative to the form’s alteration. That’s off limits; what we do know is they said it was essential to their case. But I agree that at a minimum, they’d use to it pose some form of a “how can we believe the rest of the testimony from these guys?” argument.
Evidence that goes to witness credibility is admitted regularly. How the illegal alteration of the form creating the charge is not relevant is beyond me.
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### Author:  [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1327 "2024-06-07T17:44:02Z")
IMO, the jury should decide whether it’s important.
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### Author:  [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1328 "2024-06-07T17:52:11Z")
and had no issues taking in an ‘incomplete’ form to make a sale - which is a more critical point as to wether or not Mr. Biden was rushed thru the “just check no or you don’t get your gun” process.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1329 "2024-06-07T18:01:47Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#):
>
> “unduly prejudicial and invites (jury) nullification.”
No shit it would invite jury nullification. The entire prosecution is based on a form that was altered years later after the fact. Jesus.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1330 "2024-06-07T18:11:09Z")
> [@Atamasama](#):
>
> I assumed that as well. The fact that the form was altered later doesn’t seem relevant to the case since the case is about the original form which the government has on file, since that was the one sent in. I don’t see how bringing it up would be relevant unless you want to suggest that Hunter filled out the form differently and it was the store that changed it to say he wasn’t an addict and drug user, and I don’t see the defense using that as a strategy.
I think it could be relevant to cast some doubt on the testimony of the store owner/workers. Did they habitually make changes to these forms? What other changes have they made? How can the jury believe them when they admit to making changes on official government forms after the fact?
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### Author:  [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1331 "2024-06-07T18:13:25Z")
per cnn:
The jury has been sent home for the day and court has adjourned.
Defense attorneys said in court that James Biden will not be called to testify, nor would any other witnesses.
The defense attorneys said they have not decided if Hunter Biden will testify, and they have until Monday to make that decision.
First lady Jill Biden did not return to court after the lunch break.
rc: something has happened. reports are there was shouting in the defence room at the lunch break.
naomi testified that she did not see drug paraphernalia in the car when she borrowed it. her aunt testified that she saw the gun after naomi had returned the truck.
reporters are theorizing that the defence is restructuring.
i believe this is where things got a bit off the rails:
per cnn:
Prosecutors got her to concede that she really did not know what he was like when he was using drugs because she had not seen him for quite some time.
Prosecutors seemed to catch Naomi and defense attorney Abbe Lowell off guard when they introduced her to a series of texts she exchanged with her father during the trip to New York.
Naomi Biden seemed a little confused and reticent when confronted with texts appearing to show her father to be somewhat erratic and non-communicative when trying to arrange the hand off of his car.
She did not remember the exchange and started to appear increasingly uncomfortable when talking about texts her father sent her in the wee hours of the morning about exchanging his car.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1332 "2024-06-07T18:15:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> I think it could be relevant to cast some doubt on the testimony of the store owner/workers.
Yet the defense’s first witness was one of the store employees. Are they trying to discredit their own witness?
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1333 "2024-06-07T18:19:50Z")
I imagine they would have _liked_ to have asked him about the altered form.
But they can’t because the judge ruled that altering the key piece of evidence after the fact cannot be used by the defense.
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1334 "2024-06-07T18:41:11Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> I imagine they would have _liked_ to have asked him about the altered form.
So are you suggesting that if they were able to use the form alteration to discredit the store employees they wouldn’t have called one as a witness?
I’ll admit that sounds plausible to me.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1335 "2024-06-07T18:45:08Z")
I think the defense may be preserving the appeal. “We would have questioned the employee about the form if the judge had not disallowed it”
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1336 "2024-06-07T19:03:03Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#):
>
> I wouldn’t. There’s reasonable doubt for sure.
Yeah. Mind you- Hunter was guilty of failure to pay incomes taxes, but that seems to have been handled by him admitting he screwed up and paying them.
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> Which moves us on to the next question - are the prosecution:
I think they want to appear unbiased, but they are getting a LOT of pressure from the GOP.
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> Trump defends vow to prosecute rivals, saying ‘sometimes revenge can be justified’
So am I. However-
Romans 12:19-- _Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord"._
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> If I was on this jury, I might be asking myself why I was forced to waste an entire week because someone is trying to throw a guy in jail for checking “no” on a form, that I know for damn sure everyone checks “no” for.
_Ooh, Ohh I know, I know!_ The GOP made them do it!
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> ’m not seeing much reasonable doubt here in the key facts:
>
> 1. Biden was using crack cocaine around the time that he purchased the gun.
> 2. He said he was “not a user” of illegal drugs.
Maybe- certainly he did use drugs. Maybe at that one moment, he could claim he was not.
> [@Crafter\_Man](#):
>
> IANAL, but I believe the relevant law is this (_emphasis added_):
Sure. But that is NOT explained on the Form.
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1337 "2024-06-07T19:03:19Z")
I haven’t been following this too closely, but from what I’ve learned over the last few days is that Ol’ Hunter is kind of a Scum-Bag. How does someone in his position get like that??
Crack, Coke, strippers… _His Dead Brother’s Wife???_
> [@rocking\_chair](#):
>
> “Every day,” one of Biden’s legal team responded.
I hear Jimmy John’s are addictive!
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1338 "2024-06-07T19:16:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Sure. But that is NOT explained on the Form.
Sure it is.
Granted, it’s pretty deep into the fine print, but it’s there:
> Prohibited Person - Generally, 18 U.S.C. 922(g) prohibits the shipment, transportation, receipt, or possession in or affecting interstatecommerce of a firearm by one who: has been convicted of a felony in any Federal, including a general court-martial, State or local court, or anyother crime, punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; is a fugitive from justice; is an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuanaor any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance; has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed toa mental institution; has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; is subject to certain restraining orders;convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence under Federal, including a general court-martial, State or Tribal law; has renounced his/herU.S. citizenship; is an alien illegally in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa. Furthermore, section922(n) prohibits the shipment, transportation, or receipt in or affecting interstate commerce of a firearm by one who is under indictment orinformation for a felony in any Federal, including a general court-martial, State or local court, or any other crime, punishable by imprisonment fora term exceeding one year. An information is a formal accusation of a crime verified by a prosecutor.
[Here’s the actual form.](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-7-7-cr-application-federal-firearms-license-atf-form-531012531016/download)
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1339 "2024-06-07T19:19:43Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> Sure it is.
> Granted, it’s pretty deep into the fine print, but it’s there:
But not to the extent [Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man) did.
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### Author:  [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1340 "2024-06-07T19:41:21Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#):
>
> from what I’ve learned over the last few days is that Ol’ Hunter is kind of a Scum-Bag. How does someone in his position get like that??
>
> Crack, Coke, strippers… _His Dead Brother’s Wife???_
And that was just the stuff the judge allowed in.
He also got kicked out of the Navy following a positive cocaine test, and fathered a child outside of wedlock with a woman who he met when she was stripping. The judge also prevented the prosecutor from getting into all the money he spent on hookers.
He and his brother were the real life Goofus and Gallant
> **[Goofus and Gallant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goofus_and_Gallant)**
>
> Goofus and Gallant is an American children's comic strip appearing monthly in Highlights for Children. The comic contrasts the actions of the eponymous characters, presenting Gallant's actions as right and good and Goofus's as wrong and bad. Created by Garry Cleveland Myers and first published in Children's Activities in 1940, Goofus and Gallant moved to Highlights for Children when the magazine was founded in 1946.
> Throughout its history Goofus and Gallant has been interpreted as an effective...
(plot twist: Gallant dies of brain cancer and then Goofus bangs his wife)
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1341 "2024-06-07T19:46:08Z")
> [@Moriarty](#):
>
> And that was just the stuff the judge allowed in.
Being “Not a nice guy” does not = criminal.
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### Author:  [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hunter-biden-investigation-thread-started-in-2019-hunter-pardoned-on-december-1-2024/840964/1342 "2024-06-07T19:47:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> “Not a nice guy” does not = criminal.
Which is why the judge (correctly, in my opinion) kept that stuff out.
But she did allow information about his drug spending.
Rocks the size of ping pong balls! Holeee Shit, it’s a wonder his heart hasn’t popped like an overinflated balloon!
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