# The hyperloop **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098 "2017-02-17T20:08:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/41 "2018-09-05T17:47:23Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But Musk is selling this as one-person pods. I’ve read a decent amount about the hyperloop and you’re the first person I’ve seen mention 1-person pods. I think you might be mistaken here. As you point out, 1-person pods make no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![mundylion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundylion/32/3604_2.png) [@mundylion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mundylion)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/42 "2018-09-13T18:21:29Z")
The one Musk envisions for Chicago,[https://www.inverse.com/article/45952-chicago-boring-company-deal-announced](https://www.inverse.com/article/45952-chicago-boring-company-deal-announced) uses 16 people cars, reworked model x’s, I think. Everything I have read says his billion dollar price tag is ridiculous. But he told the mayor that he would cover the entire cost so Rahm said “sure”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/43 "2018-10-04T17:24:01Z")
Update: > [@](#): > > Hyperloop Transportation Technologies Inc. unveiled its first full-scale passenger capsule, offering the world a peek at the future of travel. > The capsule, 105 feet (32 meters) long and weighing 5 tons, was shown in Spain and will be moved to Toulouse, France, for additional assembly before it’s used on one of the first commercial tracks, the California-based startup, known as HyperloopTT, said in a statement. Named the Quintero One, the product is made almost entirely out of composite material. > > SOURCE: [First Hyperloop Passenger Capsule Unveiled](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-03/the-future-of-transport-arrives-with-hyperloop-capsule-unveiling) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/44 "2018-10-04T18:09:20Z")
Nobody questions the ability of a company to make futuristic capsules. The fact that they are focusing their efforts on the easiest problem makes me even more skeptical. Show me a ten mile curved test track with a vacuum in it that can adjust to temperature swings, detailed plans for emergencies and a design for a pump that can evacuate hundreds of kilometers in reasonable time for reasonable cost. Then I might believe you are serious about building a hyperloop. Until then, it’s just flash for the suckers. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/45 "2018-10-04T19:45:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Show me a ten mile curved test track with a vacuum in it that can adjust to temperature swings, detailed plans for emergencies and a design for a pump that can evacuate hundreds of kilometers in reasonable time for reasonable cost. Then I might believe you are serious about building a hyperloop. > > Until then, it’s just flash for the suckers. According to the article there are now two other competitors: Arrivo and Virgin Hyperloop One and Virgin is in talks with India to build a hyperloop. Also, this capsule is supposedly headed for a commercial track somewhere and HyperloopTT is setting up a track in China (all in that article). I am dubious as well that it will all pan out but it does seem like some are having a real go at it. It would be weird to have three companies working on it separately if it is all a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/46 "2018-10-04T20:21:45Z")
Not at all. When there is a whiff of government or venture capital money in the air and an opportunity for free promotion because ir’s the buzz of the day, the rent seekers come out in droves. Go look at how much money the various ‘water from air’ solutions have extracted from gullible governments or NGO’s. Check out the disastrous history of the PlayPump, and all the money that got invested in it despite it’s having been a ridiculously flawed concept from the beginning. Just recently, France wasted a whole lot of money on ‘solar roadways’, despite the obvious ridiculousness of the concept. Then there’s the Moller Skycar, which has blown through hundreds of millions of dollars by being ‘ready to fly in six months’ for the past 30 years. There are a lot of rich idiots in Silicon Valley, and a lot of NGO’s and governments who care more about looking good than actually achieving something. These goofball ideas are aimed right at them. I’ll repeat: Any serious engineering firm wouldn’'t have spent a nickel on fancy pod designs and terminal designs until they did the R&D to prove that the ‘showstopper’ items could actually be solved. And Hyperloop has a number of problems that there are no existing engineering solutions for, none of which involve capsule or terminal design. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/47 "2018-10-04T20:40:14Z")
Why is the capsule streamlined? I thought this was supposed to work in a vacuum? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/48 "2018-10-04T20:42:10Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Why is the capsule streamlined? I thought this was supposed to work in a vacuum? I think it’s low pressure, not a complete vacuum. Plus, it probably looks cooler that way. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/49 "2018-10-04T22:45:19Z")
No, it’s essentially a vacuum. There is residual air pressure left over because it’s pretty much impossible to get a perfect vacuum, but it’s on the order of 1/1000 of normal sea level pressure. The difference between that and a perfect vacuum is just about nil when it comes to the forces on the tube, the car, etc. So the argument that it’s just a ‘partial vacuum’ is wrong. For engineering purposes, it’s a vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/50 "2018-10-04T22:52:41Z")
From [Hyperloop One](https://hyperloop-one.com/facts-frequently-asked-questions), a competitor of the company referenced above: > [@](#): > > **Why is Virgin Hyperloop One’s test pod (XP-1) aerodynamic, given it operates in a low-pressure environment?** > > Our hyperloop system exists in a low-pressure environment, not a complete vacuum. When XP-1 moves in the tube, the pressure rises and drops, and air flow accelerates and decelerates around it. The shape of the pod (the aerodynamic shell or aero-shell) has been optimized to accommodate aerodynamic loads while adhering to strict constraints. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/51 "2018-10-04T23:29:08Z")
No, it’s close enough to a vacuum that the criticisms regarding breaches and such are still completely valid. The pressure in Hyperloop is about 1/1000 that of sea level, or about 100 Pascals. That’s close enough to a vacuum that all the problems of evacuating the tunnel, what happens in a breach, how the tunnel has to be constructed and other vacuum issues are essentially unchanged. But the tiny bit of air in there does cause problems. So in a way it’s like the way Mar’s atmosphere makes it a harder place to land than one with a pure vacuum - the atmosphere isn’t thick enough to allow parachute descents, but just thick enough that at hypersonic speeds you still have all the heating issues. Hyperloop’s tiny air pressure (about 1/6 of that of Mars) causes problems with air piling up in front of a high speed pod and causing friction, but does nothing to allieviate the problems of maintaining a vacuum across hundreds of kilometers. A pressure difference between 14.7 PSI and .0147 PSI is pretty much the same as between 14.7 PSI and 0 PSI, for any realistic engineering purpose other than drawing the vacuum in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/52 "2018-10-05T02:23:01Z")
I found an interesting article linked about the technical challenges. > **[The Biggest Challenges That Stand in the Way of Hyperloop](https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/biggest-challenges-stand-in-the-way-of-hyperloop)** > > Although it looks great on paper, in the real world, a full-scale Hyperloop may not be realized for many more years to come. Here's why. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/53 "2018-10-06T19:27:12Z")
That link is almost word-for-word what many of us have been saying since the hyperloop was first announced. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098/54 "2018-10-07T02:46:00Z")
I noticed that, actually. From an engineering side, it seems that there’s a pretty consistent series of questions about it. Looking at it from a business side, I seriously question whether one could ever turn a profit. It looks like you’d end up with some massive throughput issues and an extemely inflexible physical design. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hyperloop/780098.md?page=2)