# The Hypocrisy of Bernie Sanders and the question of what's important to him and his movement **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 20, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882 "2017-04-20T22:48:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/41 "2017-04-24T15:33:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And here I was, thinking that the thread was about “Bernie’s hypocrisy”! In half-hearted defense, that _was_ in the title. Correct. And what, exactly, was “Bernie’s Hypocrisy”? Not supporting Ossoff, while supporting that other guy. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/42 "2017-04-24T16:12:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Fuck Bernie Sanders. The biggest mistake the Clinton team made was not blocking him from joining the party. Fuck Hillary Clinton. Not that even her husband actually wanted to.😃 You may be too ignorant to realize it, but the Clinton team doesn’t have the power to decide who gets to run in the Democratic primary. This isn’t North Korea. Maybe you should educate yourself about how the American political system works before spouting off in public and displaying your ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/43 "2017-04-24T16:19:23Z")
So what exactly is Sanders being criticized for here? Not explicitly endorsing Ossoff quite as quickly as some blogger would have liked? He never endorsed Ossoff’s opponent, he never said anyone shouldn’t vote for him. Seems like another irresponsible hit piece from the Clinton loyalists, who apparently would rather hold onto their positions within the party than actually win elections. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/44 "2017-04-24T17:02:43Z")
Bernie Sanders is, of course, a gigantic fuckhead who has no business calling himself a “progressive.” He doesn’t give a shit about people of color (on the contrary, he literally dumps toxic waste on them), he doesn’t give a shit about the gun violence epidemic, he doesn’t give a shit about women–he’s basically a glorified, self-centered, vain, narcissistic fratbro. Also: he’s been in Congress for a quarter-century and hasn’t managed to accomplish jack shit. Bernie Sanders needs to shut the fuck up and get out of the way, and stop undermining _real_ progressives. He already helped to fuck over Hillary Clinton and consequently helped put the second coming of Hitler in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/45 "2017-04-24T17:05:29Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > he’d rather have nobody than someone who isn’t a progressive. Translation: “I don’t give a shit about what happens to real people with real lives; what _really_ matters is that I feel special and pure when I step out of the voting booth.” Seriously, fuck those people. This is the real world, where not everyone agrees with you 100% of the time, and so demanding everything overnight is a way to guarantee sure as shit that you’ll get nothing. Which is fine if you’re a hyperprivileged white suburbanite and don’t actually give a shit about anyone else but yourself, but is totally unacceptable if you’re a decent human being who recognizes that keeping millions of people from being fucked over is more important than preening like a peacock about how pure you are. I’m literally a fucking _communist_ and I get that. What’s so hard about it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/46 "2017-04-24T17:08:37Z")
**John** , I voted for Hillary, despite the fact that I neither like her nor agree with her. I voted against Trump, and would crawl on my hands and knees over ground glass if it would have stopped him from being President. Is that hypocrisy? I like a lot of what Bernie Bedhair has to say. But he is not my Leader, his errors in judgement, even if hypocritical, are not a Big Hairy Ass Deal. For the sake of our beloved country, we must assemble a massive coalition, and it ain’t gonna be easy. Compromises will be made, shit will be eaten. If I didn’t think it was necessary, I sure as hell wouldn’t do it. But if that’s hypocrisy in your book, or **Ibn Warraq** ’s, well, darn! What a shame! You got a better answer, swell! We’ll nominate you! Bring it. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/47 "2017-04-24T17:08:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Keep in mind, Bernie is not a Democrat. He’s also not a progressive, or a left-winger, or anything else worthwhile. He’s a narcissist. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/48 "2017-04-24T17:11:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Even when you agree on the issues, there’s the problem of priorities. Hell, even when you agree on the issues (which, when it comes to Blarney Stone, I do–inasmuch as most of the things he supports I also support, though there are also a hell of a lot of things I support that he doesn’t, such as equal rights for women and people of color) and the priorities (which I don’t), there’s still the problem of actually having the skills to make shit happen in the American system of government. All the great ideas in the world mean jack shit if you can’t actually build the coalitions and exert the pressure needed to push legislation through. Hillary Clinton has that in droves. Blarney Stone does not. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/49 "2017-04-24T17:12:44Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So what exactly is Sanders being criticized for here? Being a gigantic fucking narcissist who cares more about his brand than about actually making progressive change or the millions of people who get shit on by ultra-reactionary governments because of his interference in electing the people actually capable of making progressive change happen. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/50 "2017-04-24T17:37:49Z")
[QUOTE] > [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Bernie Sanders is, of course, a gigantic fuckhead who has no business calling himself a “progressive.” Except you know supporting things like single-payer healthcare, a 15 dollar minimum wage, breaking up the big banks etc. and almost single-handedly renewing left-wing populism in America. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > He doesn’t give a shit about people of color (on the contrary, he literally dumps toxic waste on them), he doesn’t give a shit about the gun violence epidemic, he doesn’t give a shit about women–he’s basically a glorified, self-centered, vain, narcissistic fratbro. It’s almost as if you are just repeating #HillaryortheHighway shill talking points from Twitter and blog comments! > [@](#): > > Also: he’s been in Congress for a quarter-century and hasn’t managed to accomplish jack shit. And in little over a year created a large potential left-wing political coalition that might actually change things. Some people are late bloomers. [QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Bernie Sanders needs to shut the fuck up and get out of the way, and stop undermining _real_ progressives. Who are the real progressives? Are they the ones who voted for the Iraq War? Are they the ones who voted to repeal Glass-Steagall and were willing to gut Social Security in pursuit of that Holy Grail known as the “Grand Bargain”. Methinks they are the ones who needs to shut the fuck up. > [@](#): > > He already helped to fuck over Hillary Clinton and consequently helped put the second coming of Hitler in the White House. How did he fuck Hillary over? Did he do so by endorsing her? Was she such a fragile candidate that anybody running against her would fundamentally destroy her? Also Donald Trump is bad but he isn’t the second coming of Hitler. Fundamentally she lost because of a whole host of factors including faux-scandals such as Emailgate and her campaign being run terribly. Get over it and face the fact that Bernie is the future of the American left. > [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Translation: “I don’t give a shit about what happens to real people with real lives; what _really_ matters is that I feel special and pure when I step out of the voting booth.” > > Seriously, fuck those people. This is the real world, where not everyone agrees with you 100% of the time, and so demanding everything overnight is a way to guarantee sure as shit that you’ll get nothing. Which is fine if you’re a hyperprivileged white suburbanite and don’t actually give a shit about anyone else but yourself, but is totally unacceptable if you’re a decent human being who recognizes that keeping millions of people from being fucked over is more important than preening like a peacock about how pure you are. Political purism is bad yes but _that’s not what Bernie is advocating_. Sanders caucused with Democrats for decades, ran within the Democratic primaries, and endorses Democrats in various races. You could argue he could be a better team-player (like I agree he should have at least given a brief endorsement of Ossoff for example) but he is certainly not a purist. Indeed your earlier claims that Sanders doesn’t give a shit about gun control seems to belie this claim. I don’t know what your demographic background is and I don’t presume to guess, but I’m from a low-income, Asian-American family and I originally thought Bernie’s campaign would just be a shot into the dark just like Dennis Kucinich. And you know what? He actually gave me _hope_ that a renewed coalition based on the middle and working-class can actually win elections and implement real, social democratic reform. Indeed, Bernie’s coalition consisted in large part of working-class Middle America as well as Millennials of all stripes, urban Latinos (see his performance in Los Angeles for example), Native Americans, Muslim Americans, and others unlike previous “progressive” challengers such as Eugene McCarthy or Howard Dean whose coalitions were indeed largely one of educated, privileged white middle-class people. Indeed wealthy white areas from the Upper East Side, NYC to Westside LA voted for Clinton in the primaries. > [@](#): > > I’m literally a fucking _communist_ and I get that. What’s so hard about it? Given your obsessive defence of Hillary Clinton, I’m highly sceptical of you being a communist. Most actual commies I know aren’t big fans of Bernie but neither are they of HRC. > [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Hell, even when you agree on the issues (which, when it comes to Blarney Stone, I do–inasmuch as most of the things he supports I also support, though there are also a hell of a lot of things I support that he doesn’t, such as equal rights for women and people of color) and the priorities (which I don’t), there’s still the problem of actually having the skills to make shit happen in the American system of government. All the great ideas in the world mean jack shit if you can’t actually build the coalitions and exert the pressure needed to push legislation through. > > Hillary Clinton has that in droves. Blarney Stone does not. See above, Sanders actually did build a respectable electoral coalition from scratch. > [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Being a gigantic fucking narcissist who cares more about his brand than about actually making progressive change or the millions of people who get shit on by ultra-reactionary governments because of his interference in electing the people actually capable of making progressive change happen. Lol, again he actually created a working left-wing coalition unlike Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich, Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nader, Eugene McCarthy etc. What makes you think the current Democratic coalition can bring “progressive change” when it can’t take back the House and state governments? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/51 "2017-04-24T17:59:54Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Except you know supporting things like single-payer healthcare, a 15 dollar minimum wage, breaking up the big banks etc. and almost single-handedly renewing left-wing populism in America. :rolleyes: lol One is not a progressive in any meaningful sense if one only gives a shit about issues affecting cishet white men. > [@](#): > > Given your obsessive defence of Hillary Clinton, I’m highly sceptical of you being a communist. Most actual commies I know aren’t big fans of Bernie but neither are they of HRC. It’s not an “obsessive defense of Hillary Clinton,” it’s an obsessive defense of doing what it takes to actually make shit happen in a pluralistic democracy where not everyone agrees with me over simply talking about how great it would be if only… but then actually accomplishing nothing because we’re so obsessed with our own purity that we scare everyone else off. You take what you can get when you can get it, and then push for more the next time around. In other words: you do your damndest to get Hillary Clinton elected in 2016, because (unlike Blarney Stone) she had a non-zero chance of winning in a general (in the end she didn’t, but her odds were a hell of a lot greater than Blarney Stone’s would have been). In terms of what was actually a real-world-possible outcome, a Hillary Clinton presidency is about the best we could have hoped for at this stage. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/52 "2017-04-24T18:03:19Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > All the great ideas in the world mean jack shit if you can’t actually build the coalitions and exert the pressure needed to push legislation through. > > Hillary Clinton has that in droves. Blarney Stone does not. Apparently Clinton didn’t have it either. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/53 "2017-04-24T18:05:59Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > lol > > One is not a progressive in any meaningful sense if one only gives a shit about issues affecting cishet white men. Lots to unpack here. First of all, I hope you did notice me noting that I’m not white in my above post. Secondly, this assumes that “bread and butter” issues don’t affect non-cishet white men which given higher incidences of poverty, unemployment, low levels of education etc. among nonwhites, women, and LGBT people is nonsense. Lastly, it implies that Sanders only talked about socioeconomic issues which again wasn’t the case. He was for example the only candidate I noticed who said anything about Native Americans. > [@](#): > > It’s not an “obsessive defense of Hillary Clinton,” it’s an obsessive defense of doing what it takes to actually make shit happen in a pluralistic democracy where not everyone agrees with me over simply talking about how great it would be if only… but then actually accomplishing nothing because we’re so obsessed with our own purity that we scare everyone else off. Seems like your talk about open borders and the like does a better job of that then anything Sanders has ever said. > [@](#): > > You take what you can get when you can get it, and then push for more the next time around. In other words: you do your damndest to get Hillary Clinton elected in 2016, because (unlike Blarney Stone) she had a non-zero chance of winning in a general (in the end she didn’t, but her odds were a hell of a lot greater than Blarney Stone’s would have been). I voted for Clinton and pushed back against false attacks on her from both the Right and the far-Left. Indeed, when Bernie lost the nomination I comforted myself with the notion that she’d win by a bigger margin then Sanders. But obviously that was wrong-given the favourability ratings of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton as well as the hypothetical Trump-Sanders polling and the overall mood of the nation it’s very clear that #BernieWouldaWon had he been the nominee. > [@](#): > > In terms of what was actually a real-world-possible outcome, a Hillary Clinton presidency is about the best we could have hoped for at this stage. The fact that Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in America belies your pessimism. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/54 "2017-04-24T18:18:46Z")
Also I notice you didn’t respond to post of my other points. I take it those are conceded to me? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/55 "2017-04-24T19:14:16Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Fuck Hillary Clinton. Not that even her husband actually wanted to.😃 > > You may be too ignorant to realize it, but the Clinton team doesn’t have the power to decide who gets to run in the Democratic primary. This isn’t North Korea. Maybe you should educate yourself about how the American political system works before spouting off in public and displaying your ignorance. I would like to apologize for the intemperate tone of the above post. I try not to let the Clintonoids drag me down to their level, but sometimes I fail. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/56 "2017-04-24T19:17:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Correct. And what, exactly, was “Bernie’s Hypocrisy”? Not supporting Ossoff, while supporting that other guy. Well, that’s true, except for the part where he did endorse Ossioff. Facts just don’t matter at all to you people, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/57 "2017-04-24T19:21:27Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The bill required the clinic to offer a choice of an ultrasound, it didn’t make ultrasounds mandatory. If she requested one, the law also required the screen to be shown to her. From what I can tell this whole story has drawn a lot of FUD, likes claims that Mello had a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood. Democrats are screwed. FUD? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/58 "2017-04-24T19:22:01Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Well, that’s true, except for the part where he did endorse Ossioff. Facts just don’t matter at all to you people, do they? He didn’t endorse Ossoff till after the election and only gave his endorsement after he came under a huge amount of criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/59 "2017-04-24T19:28:33Z")
It’s not “after the election”, there’s a runoff election coming up. So it’s like I said, all of these hysterical personal attacks are based on him issuing his endorsement on his timetable rather than on some random blogger’s? And Sanders is the one who’s supposed to be undermining party unity? There is a lot of hypocrisy here, all right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882/60 "2017-04-24T19:32:52Z")
> [@](#): > > He didn’t endorse Ossoff till after the election and only gave his endorsement after he came under a huge amount of criticism. Did you mention these facts earlier, or only after **Thing Fish** ’s gentle reminder? And that was a primary, intended to select candidates. It would have taken the place of an election if Ossoff had succeeded beyond the wildest expectations, which he very nearly did. Perhaps, had Bernie offered his full-throated endorsement, it might have made the difference, the margin was slim, so yeah, maybe. Most likely, however, anyone who was inclined to follow Bernie’s leadership was already going to vote for Ossoff. Most likely, then, not much difference in terms of actual effect. You are still free to rend your clothing and wail about his hypocrisy, if you like. Your call. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-and-the-question-of-whats-important-to-him-and-his-movement/784882.md?page=4)