# The "I eat 3000 calories daily and do or do not lose weight" experiment \[IS OFF\]. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098 "2011-03-09T22:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/21 "2011-03-10T00:11:24Z")
I don’t want to hash through the book and start another huge argument, but my very broad take-aways were: 1. Carbohydrates affect many people’s bodies in a way that makes it more difficult for them to control hunger. 2. A low carb diet is a reasonable way to lose weight, which many people can benefit from because they fill fuller more easily, not because they are eating an insane amount of food. 3. Insulin plays a role in weight gain that is still being understood. 4. Stop eating so much shit. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/22 "2011-03-10T00:18:19Z")
OK, here’s my thing. Does anyone seriously believe that you can eat 3,000+ calories per day and not gain weight? I mean, seriously believe that. Because I can buy that eating a high-protein high-fat diet lowers your cravings and raises your satiety to the point that you are naturally eating fewer calories. That makes a lot of sense to me. But the idea that you can eat an unlimited number of calories and still lose weight _because calorie deficit is not the mechanism by which you lose weight_ seems a little bit crazy. That’s what this experiment is meant to disprove. I don’t know, though; I hate to be a welsher (no offense to Prince Charles), but I’m sitting here thinking about seriously cramming 3,000 calories worth of bacon and heavy cream down my throat every day and it sounds kind of gross. On the other hand, it will at least keep me away from the Girl Scout cookies. I’m waffling here, people. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/23 "2011-03-10T00:25:28Z")
MsWhatsit I think the mechanism of the low carb is the lack of stimulation to the insulin response. Think for a sec: Type 1 diabetics lose masses of weight regardless of the calories they eat. They also don’t make insulin. And I seriously believe that about the calories because I have done it. Nothing like personal experience to convince a person. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/24 "2011-03-10T00:26:13Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I’m diet/exercise controlled, so if anything this should improve my blood sugar. However: > > Now, wait a minute here. I’ve had one private message and now this message informing me that this whole “calories are irrelevant” thing is completely not what Taubes is saying, which is the whole point of this ridiculous little exercise. Proving a point about something a guy said in a relatively popular pop-nutrition book is one thing; proving a point that a couple of crazy Internet people said is something else entirely. 😛 Can I get some confirmation on whether I’m addressing potentially crazy popular science guy, or crazy Internet people? > > I have a line on the book so I may just skim the damn thing myself. Taubes, from what I understand, is simply rehashing the Atkins diet. The claim is indeed that it is the type of food you eat that counts, not the amount of calories. Posted in the other thread: United States Department of Agriculture Popular Diets: A Scientific Review 1/2 Obesity Research 9(2001):1s by Marjorie R. Freedman, Janet King, and Eileen Kennedy > [@](#): > > Energy intake and energy expenditure are relevant when looking at weight gain and weight loss. Overweight and obesity results from an energy imbalance (e.g., excess caloric intake, decreased energy expenditure, or both) (54). Reduction of body weight and body fat can be achieved by creating an energy deficit (e.g., restricting energy intake, increasing energy expenditure, or a combination of the two) (6,18,54). Atkins (48) calls these basic thermodynamic principles “a millstone around the neck of dieters and a miserable and malign influence on their efforts to lose” (p. 6). Do followers of high-fat, low-CHO diets have a metabolic advantage that enables them to eat a greater number of calories, and still lose body weight and body fat? > > No scientific evidence exists to suggest that low-CHO ketogenic diets have a metabolic advantage over more conventional diets for weight reduction (55). Studies consistently show that under conditions of negative energy balance, weight loss is a function of caloric intake, not diet composition (54). Table 4 indicates diet composition of individuals who self-select high-fat, low-CHO diets, and Tables 5a and 5b show weight change in obese individuals consuming high-fat, low-CHO diets. In all cases, individuals on high-fat, low-CHO diets lose weight because they consume fewer calories. [http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/107/United\_States\_Department\_of\_Agriculture.htm](http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/107/United_States_Department_of_Agriculture.htm) That seems to be the issue to me: is it ‘restricting energy intake, increasing expenditure, or a combo’ or is it ‘diet composition’ (in this case, high-fat, low-carb) because of how metabolism works? That’s the issue (I come down on the first position). ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/25 "2011-03-10T00:27:12Z")
P.S. I didn’t say it was EASY. I’m saying it’s possible to lose weight without a calorie deficit. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/26 "2011-03-10T00:33:13Z")
Malthus: If you are correct, than MsWhatsit should report back in 10 days that she gained a couple of pounds. That’s the whole point of the exercise. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/27 "2011-03-10T00:36:11Z")
OK, look. I’m going to do this for a couple of days, following the terms I laid out in the OP, and see how it goes. If I feel like total ass, it is impossible to actually eat this diet, or something else untoward happens, I’m quitting. Just so we’re all aware of my level of investment in this thing. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MobiusStripes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@MobiusStripes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MobiusStripes)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/28 "2011-03-10T00:36:33Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > OK, here’s my thing. > > Does anyone seriously believe that you can eat 3,000+ calories per day and not gain weight? I mean, seriously believe that. Well, sure! Taken at face value I think it’s quite easy to eat 3,000 calories per day and not gain weight. It all depends on what else you do that day! If you sit around and do nothing, I’ll grant you weight gain. A local runner, John Price, is currently running across the US. He’s putting in 25-30 miles a day. That’s close to 3000 calories right there. I’ll admit that it’s unlikely that most folks will want to, say, run the 10-15 miles a day it might take to break even on a 3000 calorie a day diet. (Based on 1600 metabolic base, which seems to be what most calculators come up with for my weight/age/height.) Maybe you can do that experiment next 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/29 "2011-03-10T00:44:24Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > Malthus: If you are correct, than MsWhatsit should report back in 10 days that she gained a couple of pounds. That’s the whole point of the exercise. Not necessarily. According to the same cite: > [@](#): > > Evidence Statement: In the short term, low-CHO ketogenic diets cause a greater loss of body water than body fat. Water weight is regained when the diet ends. In an experiment lasting only 10 days, one would predict a loss of water-weight (assuming the cite is correct) which would be quickly regained when the diet is concluded. Another cite goes into greater detail: Margo A. Denke, M.D. Metabolic Effects of High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diets American Journal of Cardiology 88(2001):59. > [@](#): > > Reducing caloric intake by 500 kcal/day should result in a 0.45- to 0.9-kg weight loss each week. However, low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets typically produce a 2- to 3-kg weight loss in the first week. This added weight loss is not due to the miracle of “switching the body’s metabolism over to burning fat stores.” It is due to a diet-induced diuresis. When carbohydrate intake is restricted, 2 metabolic processes occur, both of which simultaneously reduce total body water content. The first process is mobilization of glycogen stores in liver and muscle. Each gram of glycogen is mobilized with approximately 2 g of water. The liver stores approximately 100 g of glycogen and muscle has 400 g of glycogen. Mobilization glycogen stores result in a weight loss of approximately 1 kg. Patients notice this change as a reduction in symptoms of “bloating” and are very pleased with the effect. The second process is generation of ketone bodies from catabolism of dietary and endogenous fat. Ketone bodies are filtered by the kidney as nonreabsorbable anions.4 Their presence in renal lumenal fluids increase distal sodium delivery to the lumen, and therefore increase renal sodium and water loss. > > In a study comparing an 800-calorie mixed diet with an 800-calorie low-carbohydrate, high fat diet,5 10-day weight loss was 4.6 kg on the ketogenic diet and 2.8 kg on the mixed diet. Energy-nitrogen balanced studies documented that the difference in weight lost was all accounted for by losses in total body water. [http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/95/Margo\_A.\_Denke,\_M.D..htm](http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/95/Margo_A._Denke,_M.D..htm) ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/30 "2011-03-10T00:47:08Z")
As I think is clear from my previous couple of posts, I am seriously debating the wisdom of this whole thing, so if I can get some consensus that this isn’t even going to prove anything one way or the other, that would be swell. **MobiusStripes** , that sounds a lot more fun and healthy than this experiment does! I’ve actually put my half-marathon training on hiatus for the moment due to severe shoulder pain. (I’m having surgery on it in two weeks and hope it helps.) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/31 "2011-03-10T00:49:44Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > As I think is clear from my previous couple of posts, I am seriously debating the wisdom of this whole thing, so if I can get some consensus that this isn’t even going to prove anything one way or the other, that would be swell. > > **MobiusStripes** , that sounds a lot more fun and healthy than this experiment does! I’ve actually put my half-marathon training on hiatus for the moment due to severe shoulder pain. (I’m having surgery on it in two weeks and hope it helps.) In order to really test it, you oughtta do the diet for, say, six months. 😃 But seriously: the cites (assuming they are true) all seem to claim that weight loss initially is pretty good on this diet. The problem is that it isn’t fat being lost, and you get it all back when you stop. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/32 "2011-03-10T00:50:46Z")
3000 isn’t really that much if you are reasonably active male adult. I average about 2600-2800 calories a day and have maintained my weight for a long time. If I were an athlete I’d be eating a lot more. These days many American restaurant entrees have over 2k calories just in one meal. If you are female, obviously your calorie requirements are going to be a little lower though. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/33 "2011-03-10T01:00:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Obesity Research 9(2001):1s > by Marjorie R. Freedman, Janet King, and Eileen Kennedy > > [http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/107/United\_States\_Department\_of\_Agriculture.htm](http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/107/United_States_Department_of_Agriculture.htm) I’ve yet to see a study that actually studies anything similar to what atkins advocates. You often see shuffling macronutrients around - instead of 70% carbs / 20% fat / 10% protein they’ll compare it to someone who does 40% carbs / 40% fat / 20% protein and conclude their results didn’t differ, but no one who seriously advocates low carb diets would consider 40% remotely low carb. Is there an actual test amongst those that actually studies a real low carb diet? And yes - depending on the OP’s normal calorie expenditure rate from lean body mass and whatever excercise they do, in addition to the excess water you shed when you stop eating carbs, along with day to day weight fluctations, it’s actually quite possible the OP will end up with a slight net loss. I don’t know what this Taube guy advocates, but Atkins doesn’t advocate that calorie intake is irrelevant, but a combination of eating less due to hunger not being as frequent due to blood sugar drops, more satiety from fats, and a general metabolic rate change from fundamentally shifting your metabolism from primarily burning glucose to fat. (There are other benefits besides the fat loss too) Part of the point of low carb diets is that you don’t force-feed yourself. Without your blood sugar spiking and then plumetting, you have a better idea of when your body is actually hungry and when you’re full. Your energy intake much more closely matches your energy expenditure than when you’re eating based on blood sugar levels. If the OP ate as much fatty food as they wanted to eat, they’d almost certainly lose weight, but if you force feed yourself obviously at some point it’s going to overtake you - it’s not as if you could eat 30,000 calories of bacon per day and lose weight and I can’t see anyone seriously advocating that. Most likely it is a misunderstanding of their position. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/34 "2011-03-10T01:25:06Z")
10 days won’t kill you, probably. I gained weight during 2 weeks of my diet (but lost weight over the 2.5 months) even though I was adhering to the 1300-1500 calorie limitation, so I wouldn’t be surprised if you managed to lose weight on 10 days of this “meal plan.” It’s what happens over a few months of eating like that which would be notable. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/35 "2011-03-10T01:28:34Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > You’re torturing yourself and risking your health for ten days just to prove someone on the internet is wrong? I mean, I’ve seen that xkcd comic too, but isn’t this a little extreme? Dude, 3000 calories a day isn’t very much. There are millions of people in the world that need to eat more than that to survive. This isn’t risky at all, just take a multi vitamin. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/36 "2011-03-10T01:40:45Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > As I think is clear from my previous couple of posts, I am seriously debating the wisdom of this whole thing, so if I can get some consensus that this isn’t even going to prove anything one way or the other, that would be swell. Well, there’s proving something per se, and then there’s proving something to the Dope. Not always the same thing. I’m of the belief that you would lose weight with this endeavor. However, I also believe that it won’t prove anything on this board because any weight lost will be explained away glibly by those who already espouse the ‘calories in, calories out’ theory and any weight gained will be dismissed equally glibly for those who already believe in the low carb theory. In other words, I have doubts that your experiment, no matter what the outcome, will convince anyone one way or the other. I could be wrong. So, what’s in it for you? As far as I can see, not much. It will be a difficult endeavor at best, and it seems unlikely to convince anyone who has already made up their mind. And people as a rule tend to be a lot less open minded than they think they are. Yes, even people here on the Dope, fighting ignorance on all fronts… ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/37 "2011-03-10T06:13:33Z")
What if someone can eat 3,000 calories a day high in protein but containing an unrestricted carb amount and not gain any weight? Does that prove anything? ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/38 "2011-03-10T06:46:25Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > In order to really test it, you oughtta do the diet for, say, six months. Speaking as someone who knows a little something about diet, I do agree with this. A 10 day diet shouldn’t show instant results. I have a very dear friend who went totally Adkins. He didn’t lose any weight during his first few weeks. Its been a year and he’s lost over 40 pounds and has stopped needing blood pressure and cholestral meds. Me. I’m hyperthryod. I need carbs to keep my weight on. At this time, my friend…who is loving being skinny looks like me when I forget to eat every day. I don’t think he looks very attractive and he seems to have memory problems. I’ve had to email him stuff just so I can pull up the email and show him that we did indeed talk about it. That could just be the getting old stuff, my friend is almost 54, but he’s changed a LOT since he went Atkins. Just MHO. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/39 "2011-03-10T06:53:01Z")
Okay, I don’t mean to sound like a dick, or like I’m thread shitting or anything, but how big are you? I’m six one(ish). I eat between 1800 and 3200 calories a day, and for weeks at a time I’ll be on one end of the spectrum or the other. My weight varies between 190 and 210, depending how much I eat _and_ how much activity I’ getting. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/40 "2011-03-10T07:01:07Z")
As I said in the other thread, you will initially lose quite a bit of weight (assuming you currently eat a regular complement of carbs) because low-carb diets (and this is very low carb and mimics the Atkins induction phase) cause rapid water and glycogen loss for people who were eating carbs. That rapid water and glycogen loss would be completely recovered if you then ate normally for a couple of days. I’ve heard of people losing up to ten pounds in the induction phase (heck some probably lose more), but anyone who thinks if you lose ten pounds in two weeks that you are actually losing ten pounds of your body fat is not exceptionally well-read. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098.md?page=3)