# The "I eat 3000 calories daily and do or do not lose weight" experiment \[IS OFF\]. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098 "2011-03-09T22:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/41 "2011-03-10T07:03:42Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > Macadamia nuts, avocado, fatty lunch meats for lunch! A 12-ounce T-bone (1000 calories right there!) and a salad with lots of high fat dressing! Heavy whipping cream in your coffee! Pepperoni snacks! May you pack on the pounds (if you can)! If anyone has never tried raw, in the shell Macadamias, they are heaven on earth. (Need a proper Mac cracker, tho) and way less expensive than shelled macs. Gotta watch the dressing for sugar, though. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/42 "2011-03-10T07:09:10Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > If anyone has never tried raw, in the shell Macadamias, they are heaven on earth. (Need a proper Mac cracker, tho) and way less expensive than shelled macs. > > Gotta watch the dressing for sugar, though. And if you don’t have the proper tools, you’ll burn off all the calories contained in a macadamia just getting it out of its shell. Seriously–they’re one tough nut to crack. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/43 "2011-03-10T07:09:14Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > Based on my experience, reaching 1200 calories a day is tough on a high fat diet. 3000… I can’t imagine. This doesn’t make any sense. There’s 9 calories in a gram of fat, vs. 4 calories in a gram of protein or carbohydrate. The energy density of fat means you get get the calories in less food. This fact is also why I have always found it a little strange that people say eating low carb, high fat/protein means you will automttically find it harder to consume as many calories - except that some foods are certainly harder to eat more of, like butter: butter is mostly delivered via carbs. But steak, bacon, pork, ribs… meat can deliver boatloads of calories pretty easily. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/44 "2011-03-10T07:38:09Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > Chop and fry a package of bacon. Do not drain the grease. Add a half dozen beaten eggs, cook until almost done. Add half a pound shredded cheese, cook until cheese is melted. Enjoy! > > (I used to do this all the time in college. All my roommates would do was shake their heads.) Wow, that sounds fantastic! Although I think it shouldn’t really be a main meal, it should be placed in a layer over a huge steak. But maybe the mods should change your name to **TravisToER**? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/45 "2011-03-10T07:39:26Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > I’m not sure what kind of steak you’re eating, but even a 12 oz steak only has about 150 calories from fat and 500 more from protein. Although I do love steak…yummmm… ??? 1 ounce = 28 grams 1 gram of protein = 4 calories 1 gram of fat = 9 calories A fatty 12 ounce steak is maybe 9 ounces of protein and 3 ounces of fat 9 x 28 = 252 grams protein x 4calories per gram = 1008 calories of protein 3 x 28 = 84 grams of fat x 9 calories per gram = 756 calories of fat Even if the steak were fat free, that’s 336 calories of protein. So a 12 ounce steak has to be _at least_ 1,344 calories, because no food has fewer than 4 calories per gram. But of course there’s water in the beef. The question is how much? The leaner the meat, the more water there is. Is it 50%? The Google has not been that helpful. (A very annoying trend in calorie counters is to only give values for lean and heavily fat-trimmed meats.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/46 "2011-03-10T07:41:03Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > This doesn’t make any sense. There’s 9 calories in a gram of fat, vs. 4 calories in a gram of protein or carbohydrate. The energy density of fat means you get get the calories in less food. > > This fact is also why I have always found it a little strange that people say eating low carb, high fat/protein means you will automttically find it harder to consume as many calories - except that some foods are certainly harder to eat more of, like butter: butter is mostly delivered via carbs. But steak, bacon, pork, ribs… meat can deliver boatloads of calories pretty easily. It’s perhaps not “automatically” true for everyone – but a lot of people do find it hard to keep up that level of fat intake and remain hungry. A thick slice of bacon has something like 60 calories in it–I top out at about 4 or 5 slices before I just can’t handle anymore. Eating the equivalent of 50 slices of bacon throughout the course of a day, or 30 ounces of ribeye, (or whatever combo of high-fat w/ protein you want to put in there) is simply not possible for me unless I’m force feeding myself. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/47 "2011-03-10T07:53:25Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > I’m not sure what kind of steak you’re eating, but even a 12 oz steak only has about 150 calories from fat and 500 more from protein. Although I do love steak…yummmm… Actually, a ribeye trimmed down to 1/4 inch fat will clock in at around 1200 calories for 12 ounces. One cite I read somewhere else that it’s about 95 calories per ounce for a ribeye if you eat the surrounding fat (which I do). Note the fat to protein ratio there. More fat in grams than protein. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/48 "2011-03-10T08:18:13Z")
does the thermic effect come into this at all? I mean if on packaging for a carb meal it says 1000 cals, what proportion of that does your body convert compared to a protein meal labelled as 1000 cals? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/49 "2011-03-10T08:22:06Z")
> [@Amasia](#): > > I don’t want to hash through the book and start another huge argument, but my very broad take-aways were: > > 1. Carbohydrates affect many people’s bodies in a way that makes it more difficult for them to control hunger. Yes! > [@](#): > > 1. A low carb diet is a reasonable way to lose weight, which many people can benefit from because they fill fuller more easily, not because they are eating an insane amount of food. No! Please go back to the other thread and read the section from the book that I posted that extensively explains why it’s not about how much you eat, it’s about what your body is doing with it. Taubes: “That **growth is the cause** and **overeating the effect** is almost assuredly true for our fat tissue as well.” Taubes, plain as it gets: \*\*" **We don’t get fat because we overeat** ; we overeat because we’re getting fat. " \*\* We _grow_ fat, and it \*causes the effect \*of overeating. The fat came first, so how could overeating account for it? And how could eating less reverse it, whether we do so by force of will, or by being more satisfied through cutting carbs? Therefore, for you to take from the book this: “A low carb diet is a reasonable way to lose weight, which many people can benefit from _ **because they fill fuller more easily** _,” Is impossible to fathom. (Pardon me, you did not complete the thought, so I filled it in, based on what everyone has been saying: since they feel fuller, they eat less, therefore, _thanks to eating less, they lose weight._ If that was not your meaning, I apologize and ask for clarification of what you did mean, because I can’t think of anything else you could have meant.) It would be completely bizarre for Taube’s book to boil down to nothing more than his recommendations for ways to make it easier to consume fewer calories, since his crusade is against the very idea that calories are the problem! From the book\*\*\* that you read,\*\*\* page 8: > [@](#): > > The first part of this book will present the > evidence\*\* against the calories-in/calories-out\*\* > hypothesis. > They argued, as I will, that **it is absurd to > think about obesity as caused by overeating** > because anything that makes people > grow-whether in height or in weight, in > muscle or in fat-will make them overeat. > > I will argue in this book that the fault lies > entirely with the medical orthodoxy-\*\*both the > belief that excess fat is caused by consuming > excess calories, \*\*and the advice that stems > from it. > > I’m going to argue that this > calories-in/calories-out paradigm of adiposity > is **nonsensical** : that we don’t get fat because > we eat too much and move too little, and that > we can’t solve the problem or prevent it by > consciously doing the opposite. It is impossible to imagine how you could have read thee book and taken from it the idea that he’s telling us to eat fewer carbs \*so we will eat fewer calories because eating fewer calories is what we need to do to lose weight. \* Seriously. > [@](#): > > 1. Insulin plays a role in weight gain that is still being understood. I’d say no. I suppose we can always learn more, but he was pretty clear that we understand very well exactly how insulin works. > [@](#): > > 1. Stop eating so much shit. Always a good idea, no matter what you weigh. I guess the debate is: what’s shit? The burger, or the bun? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/50 "2011-03-10T08:26:40Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > What if someone can eat 3,000 calories a day high in protein but containing an unrestricted carb amount and not gain any weight? Does that prove anything? THAT is dangerous. Too much protein can and will make you ill. You must get the majority of the calories from fat. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/51 "2011-03-10T08:29:45Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > And if you don’t have the proper tools, you’ll burn off all the calories contained in a macadamia just getting it out of its shell. Seriously–they’re one tough nut to crack. [This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsarlnkVczs) works perfectly! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/52 "2011-03-10T08:35:25Z")
I think my cites from Taubes establish that he is absolutely telling us that you can eat 3000 calories a day and lose weight, because he clearly doesn’t think calories are the issue, and that’s the point. So if your quest was to prove him wrong and you were wondering if that was necessary because Taubes wasn’t properly understood…well, you can see for yourself. He thinks that blaming excess calories for obesity is, to use his words “absurd” and “nonsensical”. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/53 "2011-03-10T08:52:22Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve yet to see a study that actually studies anything similar to what atkins advocates. [Stanford, 2007, published in the journal of the american medical association:](http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/297/9/969.abstract) > [@](#): > > Comparison of the Atkins, Zone, Ornish, and LEARN Diets for Change in Weight and Related Risk Factors Among Overweight Premenopausal Women > [@](#): > > Conclusions In this study, premenopausal overweight and obese women assigned to follow **the Atkins diet, which had the lowest carbohydrate intake, lost more weight and experienced more favorable overall metabolic effects at 12 months than women assigned to follow the Zone, Ornish, or LEARN diets.** While questions remain about long-term effects and mechanisms, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet may be considered a feasible alternative recommendation for weight loss. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/54 "2011-03-10T09:14:11Z")
I don’t understand the “the fat came first” point. If an individual is not eating excess calories, then where did that fat come from? ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/55 "2011-03-10T09:15:13Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > I don’t understand the “the fat came first” point. If an individual is not eating excess calories, then where did that fat come from? A wizard did it. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/56 "2011-03-10T09:54:49Z")
Don’t do this MsWhatsit. You’re not a performance artist. It’s stupid and disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/57 "2011-03-10T11:17:07Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > I don’t understand the “the fat came first” point. If an individual is not eating excess calories, then where did that fat come from? The body’s regulation of fat is messed up, so the concept of “excess calories” falls apart. Lean Larry and Beefy Bob both need 1500 calories to get through the day. Lean Larry eats 1500 calories. His body burns them all as fuel. Beefy Bob eats 1500 calories. His body burns 750 and turns 750 into fat. Bob has so little available to run his system, he slows down to compensate. He also gets very hungry, because his body didn’t let him burn all 1500 of those calories, even though he really needs 1500 calories, it stored them as fat. Since he did need them, but his body _misapplied them,_ his body tells him to go eat more. His body created the fat _inappropriately_ because his fat regulation mechanisms are not functioning properly, because his diet, combined with his genetics that predispose him to fat regulation breakdown under certain conditions, combine to break down that fat regulation system and essentially “break” his body’s normal ability to correctly deal with his food. So his body takes perfectly normal, healthy, appropriate calories and inappropriately turns them into fat. Then, because Bob is now fatter, having been robbed of the calories he needed to function by his body’s messed up decision to take half of them and stuff them in his fat cells, his body tells him to go get more calories. So to the naked eye, it _appears_ that Bob eats too much and therefore he’s fat. But in fact, Bob’s fat, so he eats more. (Not “too much” - he’s eating what his body is telling him to eat _after_ his body decided to make half his calories into fat.) Conventional wisdom dictates that it’s Beefy Bob’s tough luck and he evidently needs to confine himself to 750 calories a day in order to avoid gaining weight, and 500 if he wants to lose. Obviously, since bob is tired and hungry eating 1500 calories, eating 750 calories is going to put him into a coma and when he wakes up he’s going to want to eat everything in sight. But conventional wisdom says that’s what he should do, and if he doesn’t, it’s because he’s weak-willed and self-indulgent. But Bob’s body, given only 750 calories, will burn 300 and store the other 450 as fat. then Bob will grow weaker, more lethargic, and insanely hungry. If Bob fails to eat more calories, Bob’s body is likely to start breaking down Bob’s muscles and non-fat tissue for fuel, because Bob’s regulatory system for all this is fucked up and his body wants him to have a certain amount of fat, and will make sure he does, no matter how much \*\*\*or how little \*\*\*Bob actually eats. Which explains why Bob finds it so incredibly difficult to lose weight. His body doesn’t want him to and makes him very miserable to keep him from doing so. All this is a result of a very high carbohydrate diet, likely very high in very simple carbs, which cause Bob’s pancreas to send tons of insulin into his body to deal with the carbs. Insulin is the body’s primary fat-regulation hormone and it is responsible for this mayhem. The goal is to dial down insulin’s mayhem. So Bob needs to dial down the carbs until he finds what level of carbohydrate he can safely eat without triggering this messed up fat regulation system to inappropriately store his food as fat instead of burning it off. So, if Bob might be able to safely consume 50 grams of high-fiber carbohydrate without causing the insulin mayhem, he will be able to eat whatever protein and fat he likes, because his body’s fat regulation mechanism will work correctly, burning, storing, and excreting whatever it needs to to keep his system at optimal function, including his weight. If he usually needs 1500 calories and he eats 2000, his correctly functioning fat regulation system will recognize Bob has no need for 500 calories of bodyfat, so it will burn them off and excrete them rather than store them. This same correctly-functioning system will recognize, once it is pulled out of it’s carbohydrate -induced haze, that Bob’s body already has way more fat than Bob actually needs, so, even though Bob is eating his normally required 1500 daily calories, it will kick into gear and start burning off that excess. And that is how and why a carb-restricting diet that pays no attention to calories works. Of course this is insanely simplified, but the best I can do. If you want to know more, read [this book.](http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-Borzoi/dp/0307272702) ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/58 "2011-03-10T11:55:26Z")
Is the suggestion that Beefy Bob represents the norm of the obese population, or is he representing the rare case of the obese person who is at the mercy of their genetics? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/59 "2011-03-10T12:49:47Z")
Yeah, OK, in the light of day this seems like a much stupider idea than it did last night. Also MrWhatsit started treating me like a crazy person (I mean more than usual) when I told him about it. But mostly I just can’t deal with agreeing to something that seems likely to wind up with my eating straight butter to make up daily calorie quotas. Sorry, guys. Show’s over. I mean, obviously feel free to discuss amongst yourselves if you want. I’m going to go toast a bagel. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/60 "2011-03-10T13:24:34Z")
Smart girl **MsWhatsit**. I think you made the right move. If Stoid is so sure of her plan, she should STOP posting and just do it, and post a pic 2-3 months from now of her success. Talking about how you have the answer and doing it are too different things. You have lost weight as I recall from previous threads from exercise and diet–the normal ways one loses weight and more importantly you have kept it off. Congratulations–don’t take a chance of restarting bad habits! I am up myself to head to the gym this morning and then back to have my nice breakfast of a sandwich thin with some almond butter and blueberries. And a small 1/2 cup of sliced strawberries. Keep doing what you have been doing and what has been successful for you. In fact that is my advice to anyone trying to lose weight–whatever works for you. I wish Stoid well but she needs to really stop obsessing and start doing and not posting–in my humble opinion anyways. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098.md?page=4)