# The "I eat 3000 calories daily and do or do not lose weight" experiment \[IS OFF\]. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098 "2011-03-09T22:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/61 "2011-03-10T14:29:52Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Yes! > > No! > > Please go back to the other thread and read the section from the book that I posted that extensively explains why it’s not about how much you eat, it’s about what your body is doing with it. > > Taubes: > “That **growth is the cause** and **overeating the effect** is almost assuredly true for our fat tissue as well.” > Taubes, plain as it gets: > \*\*" **We don’t get fat because we overeat** ; we overeat because we’re getting fat. " > \*\* > > We _grow_ fat, and it \*causes the effect \*of overeating. The fat came first, so how could overeating account for it? And how could eating less reverse it, whether we do so by force of will, or by being more satisfied through cutting carbs? > > Therefore, for you to take from the book this: > “A low carb diet is a reasonable way to lose weight, which many people can benefit from _ **because they fill fuller more easily** _,” Is impossible to fathom. (Pardon me, you did not complete the thought, so I filled it in, based on what everyone has been saying: since they feel fuller, they eat less, therefore, _thanks to eating less, they lose weight._ If that was not your meaning, I apologize and ask for clarification of what you did mean, because I can’t think of anything else you could have meant.) > > It would be completely bizarre for Taube’s book to boil down to nothing more than his recommendations for ways to make it easier to consume fewer calories, since his crusade is against the very idea that calories are the problem! > > From the book\*\*\* that you read,\*\*\* page 8: > It is impossible to imagine how you could have read thee book and taken from it the idea that he’s telling us to eat fewer carbs \*so we will eat fewer calories because eating fewer calories is what we need to do to lose weight. \* Seriously. > > I’d say no. I suppose we can always learn more, but he was pretty clear that we understand very well exactly how insulin works. > > Always a good idea, no matter what you weigh. I guess the debate is: what’s shit? The burger, or the bun? Those are my takeaways from reading both of his books, combined with a health background and personal experience. I’m not going to argue about them because I have no reason to do so. I did mean that people feel fuller and eat less. I think they properly represent the overall findings of the book. If someone shows up with a case-control study regarding a 3000 calorie a day study and weight loss, then I will change my mind. He doesn’t completely explain the insulin mechanism to my satisfaction but he provides a provocative and interesting way to think about it. I don’t think his book is the be-all, end-all however and eagerly await more research. In regards to eating shit, I think we’d both agree, the shit is the bun. ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/62 "2011-03-10T14:36:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Actually, a ribeye trimmed down to 1/4 inch fat will clock in at around 1200 calories for 12 ounces. > > One cite > > I read somewhere else that it’s about 95 calories per ounce for a ribeye if you eat the surrounding fat (which I do). Note the fat to protein ratio there. More fat in grams than protein. That is an excellent point, and I stand corrected. I think the difference is that to me, fatty foods are nasty, and it is physically difficult to eat them. However, I have come to enjoy steak, albeit only the leanest cuts. I’m very familiar with their calorie counts, so that’s what I equate as steak in my mind. So, although this feat of strength is no longer on (thankfully), it’s technically less challenging than I originally thought. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/63 "2011-03-10T14:41:31Z")
Incidentally, I want to be really clear here that the point I was going to try to make is only that calories do in fact matter to weight gain/loss. As far as low-carb diets go, I think it’s pretty clear that they are very effective for a lot of people. And speaking on a personal level, my blood sugar control as a type 2 diabetic has always been _excellent_ when I’ve followed a moderate-carb diet. (I won’t say “low-carb” because I’ve never gone down to Atkins-level carb intake, but for long periods of time I’ve restricted carbs to around 50-60 grams per day, with very good results for my blood sugar control.) I did not personally find that type of diet sustainable in the long term, but a lot of people do, and I think the important thing with weight loss is finding something that is personally sustainable for you. There’s not one big answer. I lost a lot of weight, and it would take me a monster-length post to talk about all the things that I’ve internalized that helped me to do it - i.e., eat foods with low calorie density, make sure to get enough fat, meal timing, coffee consumption, etc. I have a system that works OK for me. I don’t pretend it would work for anyone else although I’ll certainly share details with people when they ask. Anyway. Sorry about making this big silly thread and then reneging on it. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/64 "2011-03-10T14:52:23Z")
Awesome! Unless you’re drinking the bacon fat, you’re going to have trouble getting enough calories on the plan you outlined in the OP without vomiting from all that protein. I eat a high-fat diet of around 3000 calories per day (but I eat potatoes and such, so very far from 20g carbs per day). I use heavy cream for up to 1600 calories per day (you could also do half and half). If you’d like to pick my brain for meal plans, feel free. ETA: Oh. ☹ Anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/65 "2011-03-10T15:35:40Z")
I have some random thoughts on this thread: 1. I have always had trouble controlling my weight and felt like I was ALWAYS hungry. Having done modified low-carb for about a week, I notice that I’m significantly less hungry, eat fewer calories, and can control my hunger better. Example: I woke up around 6:30, it’s currently 10:30, and I had 100 cals for breakfast (1 egg + 1 tbsp full-fat sour cream) around 7:30 and while I’m hungry, I absolutely can sit with it and wait till lunch. 2. A low-carb diet is of necessity high fat; protein is not a suitable macronutrient for a main source of energy; it’s only useful for providing amino acids. 3. While my energy levels are more stabilized on low-carb, I kind of feel “catatonic” most of the time . . . that is, I feel kind of low-level tired/depressed a lot. Not sure if this is due to the food or other factors. 4. While _weight loss_ might be controlled by calorie intake vs. expenditure, _fat (adipose tissue) metabolism_ is strongly regulated by insulin. I don’t think that’s controversial. I’m a med student and our endocrine lectures are coming up soon. I’m really excited to learn more about insulin in a systematic way. That being said, I really have no idea why the conventional wisdom in medicine is that people with insulin and glucose regulation problems should eat a lot of whole grains. It’s better than straight sugar, certainly, but it seems like eliminating any food that’s insulinogenic would be better. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/66 "2011-03-10T15:36:43Z")
Put one cup of heaby cream into blender. Add dozen eggs and two cups of no carb drink. WHHIRRRR!!! Swallow and try not to barf. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/67 "2011-03-10T15:57:54Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > That being said, I really have no idea why the conventional wisdom in medicine is that people with insulin and glucose regulation problems should eat a lot of whole grains. It’s better than straight sugar, certainly, but it seems like eliminating any food that’s insulinogenic would be better. Because conventional wisdom in medicine also says that a healthy diet is one that’s relatively high in healthy carbohydrates, and whole grains are definitely healthy carbohydrates. It’s a big topic in the diabetic community - “is it better to eat far fewer carbs than conventional medicine tells us is healthy and not take drugs, or should I take the drugs and eat the carbs?” For me, I take the drugs and eat the carbs, but I’m Type 1, so there’s no way I can go without insulin (that’s not to say I couldn’t cut down on insulin if I dropped some carbs - and many Type 1s do). Type 2s, it’s a much more pressing debate. I can totally see how it might be really nice to not take any pills by controlling blood glucose with diet & exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/68 "2011-03-10T16:00:39Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Is the suggestion that Beefy Bob represents the norm of the obese population, or is he representing the rare case of the obese person who is at the mercy of their genetics? Bob is not rare. Taubes’ essential thesis is that the degree to which a given person’s fat regulatory mechanism is vulnerable to disruption varies and is largely determined by genetics, but that such vulnerability is not rare. He believes that the reason we have seen such an explosion of obesity in the last 30 years is directly traceable to the emphasis on carbohydrates in the diet and the simultaneous demonization of fat, which has essentially pressured the fat regulation systems of the whole population, who have responded by following doctor’s orders and poured fuel, (literally, in the form of supposedly “healthy” carbs) on the fire, unwittingly disrupting the system even more. The more and longer that someone disrupts the system by eating carbs, simple carbs, and lots of carbs, the more broken the system becomes, kind of like a rubber band that loses its snap. So you see more obesity overall, and more extreme obesity. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/69 "2011-03-10T16:11:27Z")
Demonization of dietary fat, in case that was unclear. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/70 "2011-03-10T16:17:07Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Because conventional wisdom in medicine also says that a healthy diet is one that’s relatively high in healthy carbohydrates, and whole grains are definitely healthy carbohydrates. I agree that there are health benefits to eating whole grains. However, if the normal hormonal response to ingestion of carbohydrates is severely disturbed, as it is in diabetes, I think the benefits gained by eating whole grains (some vitamins and fiber) are far outweighed by the damage that having a high blood glucose does to your body (I know that drugs can modify the blood glucose level and bring it to normal levels, but it’s not even close to doing it as well as the pancreas can). I’m definitely not blaming the pts, of course. I’m just confused as to the medical community’s logic. Then again, minds much smarter than mine have concluded that the diabetic diet should include a lot of whole grains. I’m assuming they have the best of intentions. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/71 "2011-03-10T16:19:24Z")
**So, how is Day 1 going MsWhatsit?** ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/72 "2011-03-10T16:25:35Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > I have some random thoughts on this thread: > > 1. I have always had trouble controlling my weight and felt like I was ALWAYS hungry. Having done modified low-carb for about a week, I notice that I’m significantly less hungry, eat fewer calories, and can control my hunger better. Example: I woke up around 6:30, it’s currently 10:30, and I had 100 cals for breakfast (1 egg + 1 tbsp full-fat sour cream) around 7:30 and while I’m hungry, I absolutely can sit with it and wait till lunch. > > 2. A low-carb diet is of necessity high fat; protein is not a suitable macronutrient for a main source of energy; it’s only useful for providing amino acids. > > 3. While my energy levels are more stabilized on low-carb, I kind of feel “catatonic” most of the time . . . that is, I feel kind of low-level tired/depressed a lot. Not sure if this is due to the food or other factors. > > 4. While _weight loss_ might be controlled by calorie intake vs. expenditure, _fat (adipose tissue) metabolism_ is strongly regulated by insulin. I don’t think that’s controversial. > > I’m a med student and our endocrine lectures are coming up soon. I’m really excited to learn more about insulin in a systematic way. That being said, I really have no idea why the conventional wisdom in medicine is that people with insulin and glucose regulation problems should eat a lot of whole grains. It’s better than straight sugar, certainly, but it seems like eliminating any food that’s insulinogenic would be better. Thoughts on your thoughts: Expect to have ‘low-carb flu’ for as much as a month, until your body adjusts to burning fats for the majority of your energy. Ketosis might be necessary for you to reduce body fat quickly, but keep in mind some people (me for example) feel MUCH better with moderate carbs. Particularly if you are more active, you might crave and need more sugars. You’re a med student? Cool. I’ll be interested to hear how your schooling, personal experience, and outside research on nutrition come together. Keep us posted in your low-carb thread? ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/73 "2011-03-10T16:28:39Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > **So, how is Day 1 going MsWhatsit?** It’s not. She ate a bagel instead. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/74 "2011-03-10T16:39:42Z")
Added “IS OFF” update to thread title at request of OP. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/75 "2011-03-10T18:32:27Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > I agree that there are health benefits to eating whole grains. However, if the normal hormonal response to ingestion of carbohydrates is severely disturbed, as it is in diabetes, I think the benefits gained by eating whole grains (some vitamins and fiber) are far outweighed by the damage that having a high blood glucose does to your body (I know that drugs can modify the blood glucose level and bring it to normal levels, but it’s not even close to doing it as well as the pancreas can). > > I’m definitely not blaming the pts, of course. I’m just confused as to the medical community’s logic. Then again, minds much smarter than mine have concluded that the diabetic diet should include a lot of whole grains. I’m assuming they have the best of intentions. You’re not alone; a lot of diabetics question this as well. Not so much whole grains, per se, but the overall amount of carbs most diabetics are told to eat. For the record, I’ve never heard that diabetics should eat tons of whole grains; what I was taught is that we should eat complex carbohydrates, lots of veggies, choose whole grains over processed grains as much as possible, and stay away from white flour and sugar. In short, the same diet advice they give non-diabetics. A healthy diet is a healthy diet. Part of the problem with reducing carbs to control blood sugar is that you have to get calories some other way, and the “other way” is typically fat. Sure, there’s protein, but you can’t live on protein alone. The risk with going low carb is that you increase your fat intake, and to a lot of doctors, the risks of high fat outweigh the benefits of low carb for diabetics. For me personally, I do better with a certain amount of carbs in my diet - the time in my life that I really strictly regulated carbs was a miserable time for me. I _like_ fruit and grains and bread! I’m able to manage my diabetes well with that diet (my A1c’s are always in the low 5s). But I was eating a sensible, balanced, healthy diet before I was diagnosed, so it’s easy for me to just keep going with that. Other diabetics stay away from carbs as much as possible, and that works for them. I haven’t read of any study that claim that maintaining blood glucose levels solely via diet has any benefit over managing it with drugs - the important thing is that it is indeed maintained - so really, it’s a matter of personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/76 "2011-03-10T18:41:04Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Added “IS OFF” update to thread title at request of OP. Thanks, **twicks**. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/77 "2011-03-10T19:13:20Z")
FWIW, the thread put me in mind of this: > [@](#): > > Twinkies. Nutty bars. Powdered donuts. > > For 10 weeks, Mark Haub, a professor of human nutrition at Kansas State University, ate one of these sugary cakelets every three hours, instead of meals. To add variety in his steady stream of Hostess and Little Debbie snacks, Haub munched on Doritos chips, sugary cereals and Oreos, too. > > His premise: That in weight loss, pure calorie counting is what matters most – not the nutritional value of the food. > > The premise held up: On his “convenience store diet,” he shed 27 pounds in two months. > **[Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds](https://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html)** > > Twinkies. Nutty bars. Powdered donuts. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/78 "2011-03-10T19:37:09Z")
> [@furt](#): > > FWIW, the thread put me in mind of this: > [Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html) Just reading that description made me feel ill. I can’t handle that much sugar. Blech. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/79 "2011-03-10T20:53:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Just reading that description made me feel ill. I can’t handle that much sugar. Blech. Very interesting though. I’d be curious to know his life history in regard to food and weight. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098/80 "2011-03-11T00:42:52Z")
I’m shocked that he ate 1800 cals/day and managed to lose _27 lbs_ in two months! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-eat-3000-calories-daily-and-do-or-do-not-lose-weight-experiment-is-off/574098.md?page=5)