# The "I Hated Juno" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783 "2009-02-20T23:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/21 "2009-02-21T00:12:04Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > You know people who talk like anyone in that movie? Hell, have you ever met anyone who speaks like ANYONE in any Quentin Tarantino movie? > > I remember being positivly distracted by the dialogue the first time I saw one of his films. He’s almost as bad a Mammett. Besides the character of Jules, I thought most of them spoke in a relatively normal way, at least compared to other movies. Maybe I’m just totally misremembering that movie’s dialogue, though. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/22 "2009-02-21T00:15:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Actually, the OP said pretty much exactly that, although he’s since qualified his criticism. Yeah, I sort of did. Upon reassessment of my post, I realize that I should have joined that sentence and the one previous to it, as they were part of a continuous thought. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/23 "2009-02-21T00:21:09Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Again, why must you extrapolate a general law from a specific opinion in order to debate it? No one is formulating a general, inflexible law of movie dialog here; they’re expressing a specific reaction about a specific movie. What did I do to piss you off lissener? Have we had this conversation before? ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/24 "2009-02-21T00:24:16Z")
Guys, guys, let’s all get along-- and by get along, I mean agree that this movie was a piece of shit that should burn in hell forever. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/25 "2009-02-21T00:26:19Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > Guys, guys, let’s all get along-- and by get along, I mean agree that this movie was a piece of shit that should burn in hell forever. I rather liked it. I didn’t think it measured up to the hype it got, but I found it sufficiently entertaining that I didn’t feel I had wasted my time with it. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/26 "2009-02-21T00:28:31Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > Guys, guys, let’s all get along-- and by get along, I mean agree that this movie was a piece of shit that should burn in hell forever. 😃 Sorry, I didn’t actually want to fight about this. Like I said earlier, the idea amongst the general population that non-realistic=bad it’s sort of a thing for me. That isn’t where you are coming from so we are cool. I don’t think Juno is nearly worthy of the praise it got, and yes the dialogue is annoying, particularly upon a second (or third or more) viewing.\* The basic plot is farily shallow, but the characters are decently developed. It sort of falls into the “meh” catagory for me. \*By sheer chance I was forced to see it about 4 times in as many months when if first came out. ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/27 "2009-02-21T00:39:22Z")
One odd thing I noticed-- the last quarter of the movie somehow tricks you into forgetting about how fucking bad the first 3/4 of it is. I think that if the reviews only covered the first 3/4 of the movie, they would be all negative. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/28 "2009-02-21T00:49:30Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > What did I do to piss you off lissener? > Have we had this conversation before? If not you, than someone else. I don’t know if it’s recently gained popularity, or if it’s just finally bubbled over my personal threshold, but this seems to have become the main CS fallacy these days: Poster A expresses an opinion about something; Poster B extrapolates from this specific opinion some kind of universal law, and then proceeds to debate this law, which he has yanked full-born out of his own ass, instead of responding to the actual opinion expressed in the first place. Sorry for my irritated tone, but dang I’m tired of having to address this every time it comes up. Maybe it’s time for a pit thread; a sticky’s probably too much to hope for. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/29 "2009-02-21T00:51:09Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > Oh, and hamburger phone. That’s really zany and endearingly idiosyncratic, bro. Not as contrived as you think. The screenwriter based Juno’s character heavily on herself, and she actually owned and used such a phone as a teenager. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/30 "2009-02-21T00:52:27Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > If not you, than someone else. I don’t know if it’s recently gained popularity, or if it’s just finally bubbled over my personal threshold, but this seems to have become the main CS fallacy these days: Poster A expresses an opinion about something; Poster B extrapolates from this specific opinion some kind of universal law, and then proceeds to debate this law, which he has yanked full-born out of his own ass, instead of responding to the actual opinion expressed in the first place. > > Sorry for my irritated tone, but dang I’m tired of having to address this every time it comes up. Maybe it’s time for a pit thread; a sticky’s probably too much to hope for. Fair enough, I don’t think we have done that particular dance before, but I can see why it would annoy you. For what it’s worth, the OP saying that “no one talks like that” is actually the specific argument that I personally find to be irritating and was the source of my response. It’s an argument that throws the baby out with the bathwater. The follow up that you don’t notice stylization in good movies is what prompeted the list of good movies whos stylization I noticed, since in those movies you do notice it and it is in fact celebrated. But, I probably didn’t need to do that. So, for that I’m sorry, it wasn’t for this particular thread to have that discussion. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/31 "2009-02-21T00:56:23Z")
I loved it the first time I saw it. IMO, it does not hold to subsequent viewings, which in this house makes it a rent, don’t own DVD. I don’t think it’s horrible or a badly made film. I do think it’s a bit precious\* in parts. \*This is not a compliment. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/32 "2009-02-21T01:05:13Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I don’t think Juno is nearly worthy of the praise it got, and yes the dialogue is annoying, particularly upon a second (or third or more) viewing.\* The basic plot is farily shallow, but the characters are decently developed. It sort of falls into the “meh” catagory for me. Dead on. I thought it was fun on the first viewing if a bit disposable. But on repeat ( cable, bored 😉 ) it starts to grate, especially ( as **Cagey Drifter** notes ) the first half. But enough little parts of it are good I wouldn’t call it out and out crappy by any means. The yuppie couple ( especially adolescent grown-up Bateman ), Juno’s parents and the minor factoid of the lack of drama with the pretty-female-best-friend ( for some reason that role always seems to be reserved for some kind of cattiness/jealousy to add another layer of conflict - it seems like a little thing, but I really appreciated the avoidance of that part of the cliche ). Page and Ceara entranced me less, especially on repeat viewing. Another example of a film about teens ( albeit very different in tone ) that features _very_ stylized, even more artificial and in this case very intentionally unrealistic dialogue is **Brick**. But that one by contrast holds up for me on repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/33 "2009-02-21T01:47:09Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Serious question. How can one tell the difference between well-done intentionally unrealistic dialogue and poorly done unintentionally unrealistic dialogue? I know nothing about screenwriting. As has already been noted, _all_ dialogue is to some extent unrealistic. Which is just as well, because the way ordinary people really talk is often unclear and uninteresting. Most writers do of course want their dialogue to _seem_ realistic. I doubt any writer ever set out to write the most unrealistic dialogue possible. Many, however, place greater value on writing dialogue that is funny, witty, exciting, or evokes a certain mood or style. In the case of _Juno_, I’d say Diablo Cody was more interested in being clever and amusing than replicating the way real teens actually speak. You can judge for yourself if she succeeded in her goal. ETA: I almost brought up _Brick_ as another movie where teens don’t sound anything like real teens, then decided not to. But I see that \*\*Tamerlane \*\*mentioned it while I was composing my post, so I might as well too. 🙂 In that case, the dialogue is meant to evoke a classic film noir drama. I’ve only seen _Brick_ once, but I liked it a lot. I have seen comments on the Web criticizing it for having “unrealistic” dialogue, though. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/34 "2009-02-21T02:05:18Z")
I thought it was a crappy movie, a la **Little Miss Sunshine**. The quirkiness felt forced. The characters were written as if “slightly zany” is the same thing as “a complex well-written character.” It posed itself as addressing an edgy social issue, but it did it in a way that is pretty much completely irrelevant to any real people. It was one of those movies where you never lose awareness of what the writer was trying to do. I couldn’t get engaged in the movie because I could practically hear the writer’s keyboard behind each line dialogue. I could probably give you a pretty good rundown of the screenwriter’s life, which is more than I could do for any of the actual characters. Anyway, **Juno** kind of felt like **Stuff White People Like** the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/35 "2009-02-21T02:09:01Z")
Good little movie. Liked the dialogue quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/36 "2009-02-21T02:18:52Z")
This one was odd for me. When I first saw it, the early dialog irritated the shit out of me, and then I got past it and enjoyed it. The second time I saw it, the early dialog irritated the shit out me, and then I could not get past it and turned it off. I think it was the Rainn Wilson scene. I was OK with Juno talking like that, but his delivery was just ruinous the 2nd time. ---
**Author:** ![Prox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/37 "2009-02-21T02:54:30Z")
[QUOTE=Morbo] This one was odd for me. When I first saw it, the early dialog irritated the shit out of me, and then I got past it and enjoyed it. [/quote] This is pretty much my feelings. The scene in the convenience store especially had me dreading what I got myself into. By the end, though, I thought it was decent enough. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/38 "2009-02-21T02:59:44Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > Good little movie. Liked the dialogue quite a bit. Nice threadshitting. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/39 "2009-02-21T03:05:10Z")
I wouldn’t say I hated it - I did think it was a little precious in parts (perfect word for it, really). However the portrayal of the WomanNow! office (sooo obviously supposed to be a Planned Parenthood) as an uncaring, judgmental place actually kind of offended me. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/40 "2009-02-21T03:22:08Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > ETA: How is _Pulp Fiction_’s dialogue “heavily stylized”? _snort_ Have you ever heard two people talking in real life? Ever? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783.md?page=3)