# The "I Hated Juno" thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783 "2009-02-20T23:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/41 "2009-02-21T03:31:49Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > The entire movie just masturbated to its own “cleverness” and forced quirkiness. This is the _perfect_ way to describe an interview I saw with Ellen Page, which made me decide I will never ever watch Juno. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/42 "2009-02-21T03:44:06Z")
People who think no 16-year-olds talk like that, obviously didn’t go to my high school. Of course it’s exaggerated, but jeez, it’s a _movie_. Could it have been handled more subtly? Sure. Cody dropped the “I’m clever!” anvil a lot, but, hey, she _is_. She needs to develop more nuance, but it’s a pretty good freshman effort. I enjoyed the movie, although I don’t think I’d go to great pains to see it again. By the way, is it just me, or is this a liberal/conservative split? When it came out, ISTR that, among my friends and acquaintances, lefties liked it the most and righties were the most likely to be driven into a homicidal rage (like the OP) by the movie. Could be a coincidence, though. > [@NAF1138](#): > > As to the dialogue, I don’t think it’s fair to knock the script for unrealistic dialogue, as realism clearly wasn’t the intention. The dialogue was stylized, and like the style or not, critisizing it for being non-realistic is a bit like critisizing a dog for not being a sea lion. I love this analogy, and am stealing it the next time I get a chance. OTOH… > [@choie](#): > > Haven’t seen any Mamet movies, huh? Ugh. Talk about your terrible dialogue. I thought I was the only one who noticed. That shit drives me up the wall. > [@NAF1138](#): > > What did I do to piss you off lissener? You disagreed with him about a movie. In **lissener** ’s world, that’s worse than raping a baby. > [@lissener](#): > > If not you, than someone else. I don’t know if it’s recently gained popularity, or if it’s just finally bubbled over my personal threshold, but this seems to have become the main CS fallacy these days: Poster A expresses an opinion about something; Poster B extrapolates from this specific opinion some kind of universal law, and then proceeds to debate this law, which he has yanked full-born out of his own ass, instead of responding to the actual opinion expressed in the first place. As has already been pointed out, when **NAF1138** arrived in defense of stylized dialogue, the OP had pretty much come right out and said “stylized dialogue is the worst thing ever and it makes me want to hurt people”. I don’t know what more evidence of universal-law type thinking you need. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/43 "2009-02-21T03:57:56Z")
Man, second page of this thread and NOBODY has mentioned that on top of what was mentioned, it also had a soundtrack by _The Moldy Peaches_, the most painful band I’ve ever had the unfortunate experience of hearing? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/44 "2009-02-21T03:59:42Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > By the way, is it just me, or is this a liberal/conservative split? That hasn’t been my impression, at least on this board. Actually, while I haven’t looked, I wouldn’t be surprised if you found some fans amongst certain conservative Christian circles. Given the pro-adoption message and all. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/45 "2009-02-21T03:59:51Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > I just saw this movie, and I honestly can’t recall another movie with dialogue so stilted and scripted. The entire movie just masturbated to its own “cleverness” and forced quirkiness. No one on the face of the planet has ever talked like any of the characters in Juno. Just watching it made me simultaneously cringe in embarrassment and clench my fists in homicidal rage. Why in god’s name did this screenplay win an Oscar? I can vividly envision the writer sitting in her room trying to pen a canonical list of America’s next stupid catchphrases (“honest to blog!”), and then trying desperately to mash them together into some sassy and faux-poignant script. Oh, and hamburger phone. That’s really zany and endearingly idiosyncratic, bro. > > In what world is a movie like this, as critics have pronounced it, [“fresh”, “intelligent”, and “charming”](http://www.metacritic.com/film/titles/juno?q=juno)? Did anyone else want to beat the personified version of this movie senseless with a 2x4? If you liked Star Wars (and who didn’t?) then your whole argument has been debunked. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/46 "2009-02-21T04:05:27Z")
> [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > ETA: How is _Pulp Fiction_’s dialogue “heavily stylized”? It seems to me that cheeseburgers in France and mayonnaise on fries is more like what hitmen actually talk about that the dialogue in most movies. Are you serious? The dude quoted scripture that doesn’t actually exist, in a powerful and righteous firebrand style, before whacking people execution-style. The whole “dead nigger storage” bit was realistic to you? Come on. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/47 "2009-02-21T04:14:43Z")
Bottom line: Pulp Fiction, Mamet’s stuff, etc., _comes off as_ stylized but entertaining; it works. The dialog in Juno _comes off as_ fake and annoying; it doesn’t work. There is no universal rule to be extrapolated from this, beyond “Sometimes, some things work, and some things don’t.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/48 "2009-02-21T04:17:55Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > If you liked Star Wars (and who didn’t?) then your whole argument has been debunked. Uh, it’s not an argument, it’s an opinion; it can’t be “debunked.” ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/49 "2009-02-21T04:26:28Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > You disagreed with him about a movie. In **lissener** ’s world, that’s worse than raping a baby. This is inappropriate for this forum, **Hostile Dialect**. Cafe Society is meant for discussion about the topic, not what you think of the other posters. Please don’t do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/50 "2009-02-21T04:39:35Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > If you liked Star Wars (and who didn’t?) then your whole argument has been debunked. I liked it the first time I saw it. I really hate it now. As to Juno, I rather liked it. I laughed at most of the things the makers wanted me to laugh at. That makes it better than average. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/51 "2009-02-21T04:42:10Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > This is inappropriate for this forum, Hostile Dialect. Duly noted. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/52 "2009-02-21T04:45:17Z")
_Juno_ bugged me because it thought it was about 25 times more clever than it was. I don’t care it the dialogue is stylized or self-consciously clever _if it’s successful_, and to me, it wasn’t. I also loathed the soundtrack. Ellen Paige was very good, I’m a big J. K. Simmons fan and unlike everyone else on this board, I still do like Michael Cera. So I was very surprised _Juno_ fell so far short of what I expected. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/53 "2009-02-21T05:06:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > unlike everyone else on this board, I still do like Michael Cera. Are people here really turning on him? \ I’m such a trendsetter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/54 "2009-02-21T05:08:37Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Are people here really turning on him? \ I’m such a trendsetter. I’m hardly keeping score or anything, but yeah, seems like a bunch of people have said lately that he only plays that once character over and over again and it’s boring. He’s probably overexposed but I don’t think that’s a sensible objection. Most comedians have one character and he’s no more limited than a lot of others. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/55 "2009-02-21T05:19:31Z")
I’ve been saying that for a long time. I loved him on Arrested Development. Then I saw him in a few other things and realized he’s barely even acting. He’s pretty much really just that much of a doofus. I don’t like other comedic actors who play the same character all the time, either, such as Will Farrell and Adam Sandler (when he’s being Adam Sandler™.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/56 "2009-02-21T05:43:50Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I’ve been saying that for a long time. I loved him on Arrested Development. Then I saw him in a few other things and realized he’s barely even acting. He’s pretty much really just that much of a doofus. I don’t like other comedic actors who play the same character all the time, either, such as Will Farrell and Adam Sandler (when he’s being Adam Sandler™.) Actors like Farrell or Sandler are hit and miss with me (when they’re playing Farrell™ and Sandler™) but I think their “hit” moments stem from them doing more active comedy. Both of them are the centerpiece of their scenes. Cera’s comedic voice is much more passive and relies on him playing off of other people so, after four or five versions of the same thing, he starts coming across as just that dorky guy who’s always hanging around instead of asserting himself as the funny guy. I don’t know if I explained that the best that I can but I only took one semester of film studies in high school 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/57 "2009-02-21T06:47:01Z")
I liked the movie. Yeah, the dialogue was a little too clever for realism, but guess what? Dialogue in the real world is boring! If movie dialogue were like real life, who the hell would ever go? The last conversation I heard with teens (between guys 4 and 5 years older than Juno): “Hey, you guys wanna play Guitar Hero?” “…uh, yeah, okay.” _Starts game._ _Misses a note._ “Faggot!” _Misses another note_ “Fag! Fagging Faggot!” _Fails out of set_ “Fucking faggot, man! Cocksucking faggot jackoff! Get me a beer, okay?” “Yeah, okay. You suck at that, you faggot.” “Shut up, dick head.” If that’s the movie you want to see, fine. I’ll stick with Juno, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/58 "2009-02-21T07:46:04Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > I just saw this movie, and I honestly can’t recall another movie with dialogue so stilted and scripted. The entire movie just masturbated to its own “cleverness” and forced quirkiness. No one on the face of the planet has ever talked like any of the characters in Juno. Just watching it made me simultaneously cringe in embarrassment and clench my fists in homicidal rage. Why in god’s name did this screenplay win an Oscar? I can vividly envision the writer sitting in her room trying to pen a canonical list of America’s next stupid catchphrases (“honest to blog!”), and then trying desperately to mash them together into some sassy and faux-poignant script. Oh, and hamburger phone. That’s really zany and endearingly idiosyncratic, bro. > > In what world is a movie like this, as critics have pronounced it, [“fresh”, “intelligent”, and “charming”](http://www.metacritic.com/film/titles/juno?q=juno)? Did anyone else want to beat the personified version of this movie senseless with a 2x4? When did you go to high school? We kind of talked like that. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/59 "2009-02-21T08:04:53Z")
Overly self-conscious and trying too hard to be funny? That sounds exactly like a teenager, actually. 😉 I liked the movie. I didn’t think it was the best movie of the year or anything, but it was entertaining to watch once. I think Juno suffered from Hollywood Hype Syndrome. Not a lot of movies can support that kind of hype. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783/60 "2009-02-21T08:05:01Z")
I don’t begrudge it the stylized language - not every movie has to be gritty realism. It’s called art. But it was so _self-consciously_ clever without much of a point beyond its own “cleverness.” You’re going to be stylized like that, have your characters talk like that, you should back it up with some depth. Otherwise you come off as shallow and self-congratulatory, which is how the movie felt to me. On reread of the thread - this is what everyone has said so /agree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-i-hated-juno-thread/486783.md?page=4)