# The ice diet.. easy way to lose weight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533 "2003-02-17T00:36:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/41 "2003-02-19T23:04:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Urban Ranger \* > \*\*It’s pretty easy to tell if your body is generating excess heat - if you sweat, your body has heat that it needs to remove. If not, it is not likely that your body has excess heat. \*\* So many assertions, so few cites, so little thought about the physics. If you are comfortable, in a room at say 25C, your skin is much warmer than the surrounding air, and is therefore inevitably going to be losing a lot of heat to the surrounding air. But your body can reduce the extent to which it does so by vasoconstriction (we have all felt cold and had our skin on the extremities in particular, feel icy. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/42 "2003-02-19T23:05:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > **Well I never said it doesnt affect core body temperatures, just not _significantly_. This is based on the ingestion of the recommended daily amounts of water. Sure, if you dump buckets of ice water down your gullet, I would agree that would affect core body temperatures significantly but would you really do that just to lose weight?** Agreed. Absolutely right. That’s why Cecil is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/43 "2003-02-19T23:36:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*_Likewise, with our bodies, how do you rule out that the iced water is not warmed by excess heat, diverted through the mechanism of vasoconstriction?_ > > Because you’re body heat is internal (unless, I suppose, you are in a place that’s ambient temp is over 98.6F).\*\* Cite please. If you actually check any facts (something few people involved in this debate seem prepared to do) you will find that yes, shell temperature is below core temperature. By a few degrees. [this site](http://www.rwc.uc.edu/koehler/biophys/8d.html) you will find (check near the bottom of the page) that at an ambient temperature of 9.5C, skin temperature is 28.5C. So even when we are seriously cold, our skin temp is way above external temp. If you check that site you will also find that it says that vaso constriction is very effective above a nude skin temperature of 19C (which, incidentally, corroborates the cite that Truth Seeker found in the other thread which suggested 20C). \*\* > [@](#): > > When a car blows hot air through the heater, the car isn’t warming itself, it’s warming the passengers. When you ingest cold, your body temp is going to drop. Homeostasis burns calories/energy to warm itself (that’s the key word) up. If you were standing in a really hot place, I suppose your body wouldn’t have to burn those calories, or at least not as many. Internalized vs. externalized warming is the key here. We could harness our excess body heat to warm up a slice of cheese - stick it between your hands for a minute. But when we’re warming _ourself_ up, we have to burn calories. \*\* The key point you are missing here is that the body is producing enormous amounts of heat anyway. Check out the cite above. You will note that we have to lose 80% of 60 cal/hour per m[sup]2[/sup] of skin area **just to get rid of the excess heat generated by the work involved in a desk job**. ---
**Author:** ![bluemoonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c57346/32.png) [@bluemoonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluemoonz)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/44 "2003-02-20T03:00:02Z")
> [@](#): > > No. That is the easy simplistic and probably wrong conclusion that far too many people who should know better jump to when asked about this problem. > > I refuse to debate that or reiterate the reasons in this thread. Read the other thread. I can recommend the analogy given by Race Bannon (do a search on his name on the first page of the thread) as a really quick way of getting a handle on the situation. actually you do lose weight if your body is exposed to cold i.e: i knew a guy who went scuba diving for an hour and a half in 40 degree F water. Afterwards he lost about 11 pounds. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/45 "2003-02-20T03:06:52Z")
Welcome to the boards, Bluemoonz. I know a guy whose dog once pissed on the same lampost as another dog whose owner once drank six kegs of liquid nitrogen and he _put on weight_. You never can tell, can you? ---
**Author:** ![Race\_Bannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Race\_Bannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Race_Bannon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/46 "2003-02-20T03:42:56Z")
Princhester, I see you’ve been trying to fight the good fight here. I stopped paying attention to these threads, thinking the matter was pretty well sewn up. Maybe, if I take time to go thru them, I’ll come up with something new. But, frankly, I don’t see how your detractors are going to be convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/47 "2003-02-20T03:49:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Princhester \* > So many assertions, so few cites, so little thought about the physics. > > If you are comfortable, in a room at say 25C, your skin is much warmer than the surrounding air, and is therefore inevitably going to be losing a lot of heat to the surrounding air. But your body can reduce the extent to which it does so by vasoconstriction (we have all felt cold and had our skin on the extremities in particular, feel icy. I don’t see how your post refute mine. You have yet to show that the body generates excess heat when a person is not sweating. Given that the entire purpose of sweating is to remove heat from the system, so when there is no excess heat to remove, there won’t be any sweating. If you have a good refutation, I am all ears. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/48 "2003-02-20T03:58:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Princhester \* > If you actually check any facts (something few people involved in this debate seem prepared to do) you will find that yes, shell temperature is below core temperature. By a few degrees. [this site](http://www.rwc.uc.edu/koehler/biophys/8d.html) you will find (check near the bottom of the page) that at an ambient temperature of 9.5C, skin temperature is 28.5C. So even when we are seriously cold, our skin temp is way above external temp. Your point being? What do you think the point of vaso constriction is? To conserve body heat in a cold environment. If your body generates enough heat, there is no need for evolution to derive such a mechanism. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Princhester \* > The key point you are missing here is that the body is producing enormous amounts of heat anyway. Yes it does - but not enough in a cold environment. Hence the temperature of the skin drops and people have cold hands and feet in the winter. Your body can only generate so much heat, and it is more important to keep the vital organs functioning properly. I still haven’t seen any good argument supporting this “excess heat” POV. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/49 "2003-02-20T04:19:44Z")
The difficulty here Urban Ranger is that I have been involved in this debate for two fun filled pages in the other thread. I had hoped that people would just join in that debate, rather than make me start again. But it seems that is not going to happen. It would really help me if you and others would read all the cites both here and more particularly in the other thread, learn what they have to say about how the body’s temperature control actually works (there seem to be a lot of urban myths out there) and then post. The problem with your position is that you seem to be assuming that our only mechanism for heat loss is sweating and therefore if we are not sweating we are not trying to get rid of heat. That is just not true. What about conduction and radiation from warm skin? What about the body’s ability to increase and decrease that effect by vasodilation and constriction? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Urban Ranger \* > **Your point being?** My point being that your assumption that the body is and can only have excess heat if we are sweating has no logical or actual foundation because as long as skin temp is above air temp we can lose heat perfectly well without. > [@](#): > > \*\*What do you think the point of vaso constriction is? To conserve body heat in a cold environment. If your body generates enough heat, there is no need for evolution to derive such a mechanism. \*\* We could get into a whole discussion about this and from what you are saying, I don’t think we’d be in disagreement. Now, to get back to the point, where exactly is your cite saying that upon drinking a reasonably amount of cold liquid, under normal human conditions, our metabolism increases? I seem to have missed it. Bearing in mind that I have now provided two cites that suggest that below a nude skin temperature of 20C this does not happen or happen much. \*\* > [@](#): > > Yes it does - but not enough in a cold environment. Hence the temperature of the skin drops and people have cold hands and feet in the winter. \*\* Indeed. And the bit about the cold environment is to be found where in the question the OP actually asked, exactly? > [@](#): > > \*\*I still haven’t seen any good argument supporting this “excess heat” POV. \*\* Check out the other thread, and the cites given there. They not only support the argument, they state categorically and quantitatively, the amount of heat that you dump, during normal daily activities. Race Bannon, I’m about to go away for two weeks so it’s over to you… ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/50 "2003-02-20T04:36:23Z")
The difficulty here Urban Ranger is that I have been involved in this debate for two fun filled pages in the other thread. I had hoped that people would just join in that debate, rather than make me start again. But it seems that is not going to happen. It would really help me if you and others would read all the cites both here and more particularly in the other thread, learn what they have to say about how the body’s temperature control actually works (there seem to be a lot of urban myths out there) and then post. The problem with your position is that you seem to be assuming that our only mechanism for heat loss is sweating and therefore if we are not sweating we are not trying to get rid of heat. That is just not true. What about conduction and radiation from warm skin? What about the body’s ability to increase and decrease that effect by vasodilation and constriction? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Urban Ranger \* > **Your point being?** My point being that your assumption that the body is and can only have excess heat if we are sweating has no logical or actual foundation because as long as skin temp is above air temp we can lose heat perfectly well without. > [@](#): > > \*\*What do you think the point of vaso constriction is? To conserve body heat in a cold environment. If your body generates enough heat, there is no need for evolution to derive such a mechanism. \*\* We could get into a whole discussion about this and from what you are saying, I don’t think we’d be in disagreement. Now, to get back to the point, where exactly is your cite saying that upon drinking a reasonably amount of cold liquid, under normal human conditions, our metabolism increases? I seem to have missed it. Bearing in mind that I have now provided two cites that suggest that below a nude skin temperature of 20C this does not happen or happen much. \*\* > [@](#): > > Yes it does - but not enough in a cold environment. Hence the temperature of the skin drops and people have cold hands and feet in the winter. \*\* Indeed. And the bit about the cold environment is to be found where in the question the OP actually asked, exactly? > [@](#): > > \*\*I still haven’t seen any good argument supporting this “excess heat” POV. \*\* Check out the other thread, and the cites given there. They not only support the argument, they state categorically and quantitatively, the amount of heat generated during normal activities, many as light as “sitting at a desk doing office work”. Where do you propose that heat goes? Or do we all just heat up till we melt? Or do you perspire while sitting at a desk? Race Bannon, I’m about to go away for two weeks so it’s over to you… ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/51 "2003-02-20T04:54:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Princhester \* > \*\*Now, to get back to the point, where exactly is your cite saying that upon drinking a reasonably amount of cold liquid, under normal human conditions, our metabolism increases? I seem to have missed it. > > Bearing in mind that I have now provided two cites that suggest that below a nude skin temperature of 20C this does not happen or happen much.\*\* I could be misinterpreting, but I think you meant _above_ a temperature of 20[sup]o[/sup]C. At least, that’s the way I interpreted two posts where you refer to outside links–one being a sd column. Did I get that? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/52 "2003-02-20T04:58:56Z")
Sorry, you’re quite right, thanks RM. Above 20C. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533/53 "2003-02-20T05:53:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Philster \* > **RV, I’m not disagreeing…** With that, I think I’ll retire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ice-diet-easy-way-to-lose-weight/155533.md?page=2)