# The iiandyiiii guide to white supremacists and their enablers/tolerators **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017 "2019-01-19T01:17:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/81 "2019-01-22T09:49:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Enough said. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/82 "2019-01-22T10:11:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You honestly think that? Funny that we just had a black man as president. Such racism. Followed by the current president who ran on, and now governs on, white nationalist themes. Wake up, Octopus, your calendar should say 2019. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/83 "2019-01-22T13:05:01Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Enough said. You **have** said enough. We’re told! Declare victory and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/84 "2019-01-22T16:56:41Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Followed by the current president who ran on, and now governs on, white nationalist themes. Wake up, Octopus, your calendar should say 2019. But admitting that would also be admitting that Lucifer is President of the United States and he has already murdered every non-white, non-racist, non-male on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/85 "2019-01-22T17:04:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Seriously? Fuck off. “Obama, therefore no racism” is just too stupid an argument, even for you. I have to believe you’re just outright trolling with that one. I didn’t say no racism. > [@Leaper](#): > > To be clear, what exactly do you think Obama’s election indicates about race relations in America, and how serious racism is as a societal and institutional issue? I think Obama’s election was a good sign for race relations and even if I had an issue with a policy or an ideology of his that in the long term it was a very good thing. It’s important as long as people see gender or color that there is at least some representation that can be inspiring. How serious is racism? In some areas of the US pretty serious. I’m not sure the best of way of changing how people think though. Which should be obvious by how many arguments I’ve won here. > [@asahi](#): > > Followed by the current president who ran on, and now governs on, white nationalist themes. Wake up, Octopus, your calendar should say 2019. Economic uncertainty caused by counterproductive policy is, as predicted, leading to populist backlash. Foolishly looking through what’s happened and happening in the world today through a “dat’s racist” lens is not going to help the left. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/86 "2019-01-22T18:16:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How serious is racism? In some areas of the US pretty serious. I’m not sure the best of way of changing how people think though. Which should be obvious by how many arguments I’ve won here. So, I appreciate that you’re not sure how to change how people think. When I’m not sure about how to do something, I try to pay attention to folks who’ve made it their life’s work, listen to what they say is successful. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/87 "2019-01-22T19:26:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: How much have they got you for? You know those guys are rolling in money off that hustle right? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/88 "2019-01-22T19:29:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So, I appreciate that you’re not sure how to change how people think. When I’m not sure about how to do something, I try to pay attention to folks who’ve made it their life’s work, listen to what they say is successful. So tell me how to get people to hop off that Democratic plantation! Please. 🙂 That’s true humility on display right there. Sometimes I surprise myself. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/89 "2019-01-22T19:31:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So tell me how to get people to hop off that Democratic plantation! Please. 🙂 Step 1: GTFO with your racist assumption that the only reason black people would vote for Democrats would be that they haven’t shaken some sort of slave mentality. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/90 "2019-01-22T19:45:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Step 1: GTFO with your racist assumption that the only reason black people would vote for Democrats would be that they haven’t shaken some sort of slave mentality. Why is it your racist assumption that only black folks are chained to the plantation? :dubious: The Democratic Party is diverse. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/91 "2019-01-22T19:46:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why is it your racist assumption that only black folks are chained to the plantation? :dubious: The Democratic Party is diverse. GTFO with your trolling, octopus. Nobody is fooled by what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/92 "2019-01-22T19:55:49Z")
> [@iiAndyiiii](#): > > White supremacism is still, by far, the biggest enemy. It’s still, by far, the worst thing in America. And the biggest threat to Americans. That’s the part that has me scratching my head. THAT is the “biggest enemy” and “worst thing in America” and the “biggest threat to Americans”? Not stuff like foreign interference in our elections, or the blatant disregard for democratic norms and procedures by a sitting President? Or maybe income inequality? Or the obesity epidemic? Or crumbling infrastructure? Unpreparedness for natural disasters? Or any of a myriad of other things that IMO, are bigger threats to a whole lot more people than white supremacists and their views are. And it’s like he can’t quite parse out that the world isn’t black and white, and that not being on board with his particular stripe of how things “ought to be” doesn’t make one even a racist, much less a white supremacist. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/93 "2019-01-23T05:59:12Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > For the record, I am not at all a fan of that other Pit thread. > > I’m not copying here iiandyiiii’s empty moral grandstanding or lazy abdication of intellectual responsibility, where he’s “not sure” about some of the posts. Sheer laziness and stupidity. Many of the posts are completely awful. They are self-evidently awful. You have to be willfully obtuse to pretend to ignore that, and it’s another layer of inanity to cover that obtuseness in a veneer of moral righteousness. It is pathetically shallow behavior. > > But I still don’t like that Pit thread at all. > > I don’t like the animus in that thread not because Huey doesn’t deserve the more intelligent criticisms he’s receiving (it’s indisputable that he does) but because _the very fact that he deserves the better criticisms_ opens up some sinister racial undertones to the lower-quality criticisms that I do not like at all. The attitude I’m picking up, whether fair or not, is: “HERE’s a black guy who FINALLY deserves what’s coming to him! It’s OPEN SEASON on this one!” And so all of the rhetorical guns come out. It feels like all the previous times when people had to bite back their tongue when they didn’t want to be challenged by a black guy built up a lot of pressure, and now that there’s a “deserving” target, that entire reservoir of animus can come out at once. I do not like it. Fair or not, that’s the attitude I think I’m picking up, and I do not like it. > > Now, it’s a legitimate response to say, “Anybody who posted such appallingly malicious shit deserves to be pitted, and in fact _would_ be pitted on this board.” I don’t disagree. The pitting is well deserved, and if it were anyone else being such a gigantic jerk, exactly the same thing would’ve happened. That’s not my criticism. My point is simply that there is a horrific racial history in this society, and that history changes the context of interpretation for every possible conversation. Including a Pit thread. The extended length of that thread, and its repeated beating of a dead horse, leaves itself open to more interpretations than the similar tedious length and bruised horse corpse habits of other similar threads, which would not suffer the deeper questions about motives. We interpret things in context. That’s just a fact. Fair? No. But who cares? The racial history of this country wasn’t very fuckin fair either, was it? > > “But my motives are pure!” Fine. Sure. I’m not going to argue with you. There are plenty of posters who are making nuanced, intelligent criticisms, including especially **Riemann** (whose posts are pretty much always nuanced and intelligent). I’m not trying to read minds here, and say that the specific motives of specific posters are impure. I’m saying that it feels like, to me, that the social context of this thread matters. “We always beat dead horses like this!” Yes. True. But beating a dead horse so long _in this context_ looks much worse than in other contexts. It raises darker questions in this context that it wouldn’t in other contexts. > > I think it was absolutely, totally worth starting that Pit thread to highlight the worst behavior, so that people who didn’t know what a useless jerk Huey was could finally see that. But also I think the best thing to do now is to let it go. Just let it go. This particular dead horse doesn’t need the usual beating that most similar horses receive. Even if it quite thoroughly “deserves” it. _Especially_ if it deserves it. The case has been made. It is not in dispute. (Or at least, it’s not in dispute to anyone who hasn’t deliberately shut their brain off.) > > The pitting was fully justified. But continuing it? I really don’t think so. Speaking only for myself as someone who’s been wary of him from the beginning, prior to his pitting I never once responded directly to Huey on this site. My tactics were to make mention of what he was doing in response to someone else, whether to add more information for those who were noticing it or to be critical of those who seemed to only see one side to why the his contributions would often be succeeded with low-level banter. He confined himself to the Pit some time ago, so I could have attacked him. It’s not my style to wait and see if others agree with me first. I think a lot of people here are extremely naive what it would mean to give nearly as much leeway to activists in a variety of contexts (if we suspend disbelief and consider Huey an activist) when those activists tear other groups down that they could be living in harmony with or refuse to have any empathy. While I can’t expect them to be perfect, I don’t have much patience for the activists who do this and it’s disappointing when others are easily manipulated or are silenced by them. Whether Huey is advocating for black, blue, yellow, or green people is of little importance by comparison. I don’t have the patience and my approach is no nonsense. Well, maybe a little from me in his pitting because his ridiculousness approaches the Westboro Baptist tier of aberrant. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/94 "2019-01-23T06:02:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > GTFO with your trolling, octopus. Nobody is fooled by what you mean. Pointing out left wing hypocrisy is trolling. Pointing out racism is not cool is racist. Pointing out forum double standards is trolling. How about GTFO with your delusional nonsense because even you don’t believe doublespeak that egregious. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/95 "2019-01-23T06:26:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Pointing out left wing hypocrisy is trolling. > Pointing out racism is not cool is racist. > Pointing out forum double standards is trolling. > > How about GTFO with your delusional nonsense because even you don’t believe doublespeak that egregious. Go to bed, Stonewall. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/96 "2019-01-23T07:10:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I didn’t say no racism. :rolleyes: It’s almost cute when you try to be clever. Almost. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/97 "2019-01-23T07:32:12Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Not stuff like foreign interference in our elections, or the blatant disregard for democratic norms and procedures by a sitting President? Or maybe income inequality? Or the obesity epidemic? Or crumbling infrastructure? Unpreparedness for natural disasters? Or any of a myriad of other things that IMO, are bigger threats to a whole lot more people than white supremacists and their views are. Ask yourself, how much better off would your country be on many fronts - e.g. on environmental issues, or health issues - if the previous Congresses hadn’t obstructed Pres. Obama’s attempts at passing legislation at every turn. And why did that bunch of mostly old white men do that, do you reckon? _Really_, underneath it all? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/98 "2019-01-23T14:32:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Ask yourself, how much better off would your country be on many fronts - e.g. on environmental issues, or health issues - if the previous Congresses hadn’t obstructed Pres. Obama’s attempts at passing legislation at every turn. > > And why did that bunch of mostly old white men do that, do you reckon? _Really_, underneath it all? I doubt that was racism, at least not entirely. I’d be much more likely to chalk it down to Republican obstructionism of ALL things Democrat. In other words, it wouldn’t have mattered much at all had it been John Edwards or Bill Richardson (Obama’s chief white guy primary challengers) in there instead of Obama. Having a black man as President was more of an icing on the cake thing for them, not the main course. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/99 "2019-01-23T14:52:36Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I doubt that was racism, at least not entirely. I’d be much more likely to chalk it down to Republican obstructionism of ALL things Democrat. In other words, it wouldn’t have mattered much at all had it been John Edwards or Bill Richardson (Obama’s chief white guy primary challengers) in there instead of Obama. > > Having a black man as President was more of an icing on the cake thing for them, not the main course. “President” is not capitalized. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017/100 "2019-01-23T15:19:41Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I doubt that was racism I don’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iiandyiiii-guide-to-white-supremacists-and-their-enablers-tolerators/828017.md?page=6)