# The Iliad - Your Take? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 29, 2001, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755 "2001-08-29T17:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/21 "2001-08-29T20:33:21Z")
Well, Fagles’s personal flaws notwithstanding, I like his translation better than that of Lattimore. For my money, though, the Odyssey is the more interesting book, if only because I enjoy reading about sirens, cyclops, sailors turned into swine, and the father/son reunion with Telemachus and Odysseus more than a long and drawn out war story, great as it is. ---
**Author:** ![rushtopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@rushtopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rushtopher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/22 "2001-08-29T21:26:20Z")
Odyssey is definitely better, in my opinion. Frankly, more happens in the Odyssey. Like others above I began reading the Illiad in earnest because it starts out very exciting but became bored with it when I realized it was just one big fight scene. And a few speeches thrown in for good measure. Little or none of the “famous” stuff happens in the Illiad, which makes me wonder how they became famous in the first place. Of course the Odyssey, like the Illiad, starts off after much of the “famous” stuff has happened as well. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/23 "2001-08-29T22:06:42Z")
So who did the translation in the _Britannica_ Great Books collection? I remember that I tried to read it, but the language was so archaic, I figured I’d have an easier time with the original Greek. No, I don’t know Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/24 "2001-08-30T00:15:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi \* > \*\*Achilles is a spoiled brat. > Ares is a crybaby. > Aphrodite is a vindictive slut. > Paris is a sullen wanker. > Hector rocked, then he got rolled. > Aeneas deserved his own spinoff series. > Who the hell would want a giant wooden rocking horse, anyway? > Agamemnon could have used a course in active listening. > 😉 > \*\* Are you by any chance familiar with Shakespeare’s [Troilus and Cressida](http://tech-two.mit.edu/Shakespeare/troilus_cressida/index.html)? 😉 I like the Fagles translation – of course, I don’t read ancient Greek and I’ve never met him so I don’t know (or care) if he’s an asshole. Ah, well. BTW, where can I find the audio version with Derek Jacobi? (I would enjoy listening to Derek Jacobi reading the phone book. :D) I’ll have to look for _The Patrocleia_ as well – sounds intriguing. Thanks for the heads-up. (I read the Fitzgerald Aeneid, but it was at the same time as I was reading the Latin. It helped a lot.) Drastic, ROTFL. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/25 "2001-08-30T00:56:30Z")
Here’s the Penguin Audio version, on Amazon: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0453007740/qid=999132743/sr=1-3/ref=sc\_b\_3/002-1567122-6333629](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0453007740/qid=999132743/sr=1-3/ref=sc_b_3/002-1567122-6333629) You can also find it at large bookstores the B&N chain, Borders Books, etc. have them on the shelves. Sometimes.) Jacobi doesn’t read the Penguin Audio of The Odyssey, but he does read another version of it. [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) doesn’t even list Logue’s **Patrocleia** , but they do list some of his other translations. I’m surprised he hsn’t completed either the Iliad r th Odyssey: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-1567122-6333629](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/002-1567122-6333629) ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/26 "2001-08-30T02:54:11Z")
Love the Illiad, I hope you enjoy it too. My approach to the Illiad has always been similar to the Whole Language approach to teaching kids to read – sort of a Whole Illiad method. Personally, I can’t read it straight through. I enjoy it much more when I read a section, and then start following what ever catches my interest, doing reading or online research on the people mentioned, or browsing over maps of Asia Minor, or looking at depictions of the events of the Illiad in painting and sculpture from various periods, or archeological exhibits of Greek weapons and shields. You could really spend the rest of your life doing that, not a bad hobby IMHO. Don’t forget to follow up with some of the Greek tragic plays that involve various characters from the Illiad and what happens to them after. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/27 "2001-08-30T03:45:08Z")
I remember NBC doing the _Odyssey_ as a mini-series and I wanted to read the book before seeing the series. I went to my sister, who had it from when she went to college. She suggested I read _The Iliad_ first and gave me both books, as well as the _Aenid_. I loved it. It was much better than Cats. I’m going to read it again and again. Seriously, I liked _The Iliad_ better than _The Odyssey_, but I agree it has much to do with the translation you get. After reading them, I went to buy my own copies, but couldn’t find a translation I liked. Still looking… ---
**Author:** ![Zaphod\_Beeblebrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/0ea827/32.png) [@Zaphod\_Beeblebrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zaphod_Beeblebrox)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/28 "2001-08-30T04:32:20Z")
I’m just signing in as another poster who hates Lattimore’s translations. Yes, they are close translations. However, sometimes a good translator _should_ take liberties, otherwise the text will seem like… well… a translation. I rather like my Penguin Books’ translation of _The Odyssey_, but unfortunately, I am now thousands of kilometers away from my Classics collection, and I’m drawing a blank on the translator’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Zaphod\_Beeblebrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/0ea827/32.png) [@Zaphod\_Beeblebrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zaphod_Beeblebrox)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/29 "2001-08-30T04:46:36Z")
That said, if you ever have a chance to read Homer in the original Greek, do try it. I only read some parts of _The Iliad_ in Greek, but I read _The Odyssey_ entirely in Greek. The translations are good, but they don’t do the originals justice. Many words in Greek were polysemic. That fact was fully exploited in the original texts. Many paragraphs can be read four or five different times, and interpreted differently each time. Basically, my thoughts after having read _The Odyssey_ in English were “Hmmm… entertaining story, but I don’t really see the big deal.” After reading it in Greek, my thoughts were “Oh my goodness. This is too freaking good.” ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/30 "2001-08-30T04:57:34Z")
I am currently reading the Illiad, and I agree that Lattimore’s translation is a little rough. His translation of the Odyssey seemed to flow more smoothly. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/31 "2001-08-30T14:14:46Z")
The Odyssey is certainly a more colorful and _entertaining_ work, but in my opinion it does not address some of the Great Problems of the Human Psyche with nearly the depth and sophistication of the Iliad. The nature of leadership, heroism, and the good life are methodically explored in speeches and ekphrases. Take this speech of Sarpedon, for example: > [@](#): > > With these words he put heart and soul into them all. Then Sarpedon rebuked Hektor very sternly. “Hektor,” said he, “where is your prowess now? You used to say that though you had neither people nor allies you could hold the town alone with your brothers and brothers-in-law. I see not one of them here; they cower as hounds before a lion; it is we, your allies, who bear the brunt of the battle. I have come from afar, even from Lycia and the banks of the river Xanthos, where I have left my wife, my infant son, and much wealth to tempt whoever is needy; nevertheless, I head my Lycian warriors and stand my ground against any who would fight me though I have nothing here for the Achaeans to plunder, while you look on, without even bidding your men stand firm in defense of their wives. See that you fall not into the hands of your foes as men caught in the meshes of a net, and they sack your fair city forthwith. Keep this before your mind night and day, and beseech the leaders of your allies to hold on without flinching, and thus put away their reproaches from you.” While setting the fundamental principles of leadership and heroism, Homer is darkly ironic, for their efforts bring them only humiliating death. The Iliad ultimately concludes, in my opinion, that there is no wisdom in suffering, yet we as humans must continue to plod onwards, and we must continue to hold on without flinching. Even the victories of the Greeks come to nothing: Agamemnon gets offed as soon as he gets home, Achilles dies horribly on the field, Aias kills himself from rage and shame, Menelaus and Helen live in a haze of drugs and alcohol back in Sparta, and a fair city is annihilated. All for what? All because the Greeks and the Trojans discharged their duties without flinching. Homer’s world is and grim, yet his characters live and die with rare majesty and dignity. MR ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/32 "2001-08-30T17:36:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox \* > \*\*. > > I rather like my Penguin Books’ translation of _The Odyssey_, but unfortunately, I am now thousands of kilometers away from my Classics collection, and I’m drawing a blank on the translator’s name. \*\* I think it might be E. V. Rieu. At least, that’s who did the translations on my Penguin editions of the _Iliad_ and the _Odyssey_. (Of course, I’d _prefer_ to read them in the original… but my Greek is rusted away to practically nothing these days…) ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/33 "2001-08-30T17:39:22Z")
Yep, Emil Rieu did the Iliad and the Odyssey for Penguin. And in my opinion, they are excellent prose translations. Good call. ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/34 "2001-08-31T13:49:02Z")
I started reading it last night. I think it’s going to take a while. It is very hard to follow at times, but seems pretty good so far. I’ll look into the Penguin versions to see if they are easier to follow, though. ---
**Author:** ![Zaphod\_Beeblebrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/0ea827/32.png) [@Zaphod\_Beeblebrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zaphod_Beeblebrox)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755/35 "2001-08-31T13:54:55Z")
Yes, it was indeed a rather modern (stylistically) prose translation. Unfortunately, the name of the translator doesn’t ring a bell, but it’s probably right. My memory just happens to suck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-iliad-your-take/78755.md?page=1)