# The Illinois "Open Road Tolling" Was An Incredibly Bad Idea **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 1, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824 "2006-08-01T01:50:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Heckxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f1d935/32.png) [@Heckxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heckxx)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/61 "2006-08-02T13:58:45Z")
But you get what you pay for. When I’m driving to Chicago in a dark night with a snowstorm hitting, there is plenty of lighting from above and the highways are clear, snowless, iceless. When I’m driving to Milwaukee on a dark night with a snowstorm hitting, I see dozens of cars pulled off to the side, and I have to drive 30mpg to avoid skidding on the snow-covered roads. And I can hardly see the road, let alone the lines that divide the lanes. ---
**Author:** ![Pixisis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@Pixisis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixisis)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/62 "2006-08-02T14:09:46Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I have no problem paying tolls when they’re located at the exits. It’s a very quick stop and the fee is usually negligible. What I object to, _strenously_, is the idea of having to come to a stop on the freeway itself. The very concept seems ill-planned. I really don’t see what the benefits of this new system would be over traditional exit-tolling. [/QUOTE] Is exit tolling “traditional” ? IIRC, barrier tolls (toll plazas in the road) were common before exit tolling. Certainly the earliest tolls weren’t exit tolls, because they weren’t on multilane highways with exits. When the interstate system was first built, was there any consensus about which type of toll system was used ? When i was young, CT had barrier tolls on I95 (no tolls there anymore, thank OG) but the Mass Pike and NY Thruway were exit tolls … And NJ has both types. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/63 "2006-08-02T14:27:02Z")
[QUOTE=asterion] Ah, this whole thread reminds me of why I refuse to drive on ANY toll road and believe that allowing INTERSTATES to become toll roads should be a capital offense. I drove on the PA Turnpike once and hated the way the road was constructed. I don’t think I’d drive on it for free, much less pay for the “privilege.” It’s an Interstate damn it, paid for partially by federal taxes. Either make up the rest of road costs with state taxes or stop taking the fed money, but don’t go charging tolls. If you want to charge a toll, go build your own damn road. [/QUOTE] The Pennsylvania Turnpike receives no federal funding. It is a privately owned road, owned and administrated by the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission. The tolls all go to improving the road. So yes, they did build their own damn road. > [@](#): > > The PA Turnpike itself is in horrid condition, the road is too narrow and there are some places like the 3 mile hill with curves that are reduced speed because of the poor road design, and there are accidents and construction constantly. That road is a travesty. I avoid it whenever I can. It was built on a railroad right-of-way, so some of the areas on the Turnpike were built the way they were out of necessity. From Blue Mountain to Carlisle it’s long and straight because that’s what they had to work with. Unfortunately, it results in “highway hypnotism”. Through the mountains it has a lot of switchbacks because a train cannot simply go up and down hills, they have to work in some gradual climbs and descents. But hey, it was the first of its kind. Mistakes were bound to be made. It’s still an awesome highway, and as I said, it was built without federal funding. If you don’t want to take the Turnpike you can take I-80 across the top of the state or you can take US Route 30, which I do NOT recommend. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/64 "2006-08-02T14:56:22Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I have no problem paying tolls when they’re located at the exits. It’s a very quick stop and the fee is usually negligible. What I object to, _strenously_, is the idea of having to come to a stop on the freeway itself. [/QUOTE] This is the thing I don’t understand. Have you never driven through Chicago before? The tollbooths here have always been this way. There has always been, oh, I don’t know, maybe 4-5 tollbooths between Wisconsin and Indiana. The open-road tolling is an improvement because, if you have an I-Pass, you NEVER have to stop. That’s the point. No stopping at the beginning. No stopping at the end. No stopping in-between. If you don’t have an I-Pass, you have to stop, true, but anyone can get the I-Pass. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/65 "2006-08-02T15:49:32Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] Just like those millions of people who are deathly afraid of working in high rise office buildings today? :rolleyes: [/quote] 1. And [low-rise office buildings](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon#September_11.2C_2001), and everything in between? 2. Five years later is ‘suddenly’? 3. People _were_ afraid to _travel by air_ for most of the year following 9/11. (My wife and I appreciated being able to stretch out over a row of seats apiece on a Hawaii-bound flight that November.) 4. Washington, D.C.-area tourism dropped off substantially in the months following 9/11. (One of my favorite D.C. bookstores folded as a result; a larger share of their walk-in business than they realized was made up of out-of-towners.) So don’t tell me 9/11 didn’t cause people to be afraid to do things they’d been doing before. > [@](#): > > I can imagine nothing short of a uninhabited cornfield that would act as a less effective terror target than a toll plaza. Yes, several dozen people would die. We aren’t arguing over much in the numbers; “several dozen” v. “a hundred or so” ain’t no thing. > [@](#): > > However no lasting damage would be done, the road would be essentially unharmed and the debris could easily be cleaned up withing a matter of days. It could be done overnight if you disregard the forensic process. A month later you’re likely to be completely unable to tell anything happened there. And nobody would remember a thing, I guess. > [@](#): > > Hundreds and hundreds of people die on the roads every single day from a variety causes. That’s in no way terrorized people or caused anyone to hesitate to use highways. Why would you think some truck bomb would have more impact? Statistically it’s utterly insignificant. It’s funny how people don’t react rationally. You know and I know that 9/11 killed fewer people than die on our nation’s highways each month, but 9/11 and its downstream consequences (including Iraq, since no 9/11 =\> no invasion) still dominates our politics and absorbs hundreds of billions of our tax dollars, five years later. Meanwhile, a comparatively trifling amount of resources (if any) have been added to our highway safety programs. People are terrorized by bad shit that’s _out of the ordinary_. I remember the brief hue and cry back in the 1970s when one kid committed suicide in a way that had some connection with his involvement in Dungeons and Dragons. Kids commit suicide with some frequency, but one kid commits suicide in a way that’s connected with something strange and now suddenly scary in its otherness, and PTAs all across the country go into D&D hysteria mode. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/66 "2006-08-02T19:49:34Z")
This is precisely why I’m glad that virtually all of Kentucky’s roads are toll-free. Sure, we have to put up with more time between repavings, but you don’t have to worry about dealing with toll plazas and running out of change. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/67 "2006-08-02T20:20:46Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I just returned fom one of the most greuling driving experiences I have ever had. Scratch that-- It was the _worst_ driving experience I have ever had, and I’ve been driving cross-country since I was a kid. I have to admit I was deeply impressed. Never have I seen incompetence writ on such a grand scale. It was truly spectacular-- the final stages of an incredibly Bad Idea which manages to ruin an entire state. My husband voiced the opinion that “Open Road Tolling” must have been conceptualized by monkeys, but I disagree. It was the work of the Antichrist. See, Route 90 is a Northern passage across the United States. Following this single interstate freeway, you can travel across a good portion of our great land. For those Dopers who are not familiar with the American road system, interstate freeways are massive highways, often of three or even four lanes going in either direction. Their appeal is that the speed limit is generally higher, and there’s no stopping unless it’s for gas. Some of the states designate their parts of this road as toll ways, meaning that you pay a nominal fee based on the distance you’ve traveled. You get a ticket when you enter the freeway, and pay the toll at the exit you use. Toll roads are often less crowded, limited access (which means less slow-downs from lane changes and merges) and generally well-maintained. Some corknut in Illinois desided to fix a system which wasn’t broken. They have this new “Open Road Tolling.” This means that the toll booths are in the center of the freeway every few miles, meaning freeway traffic has to come to a complete stop and pay the toll. When you look at the pictures of what it will look like when finished, you see a few cars breezily coasting into the tolling booths. It looks smooth and streamlined, the art has a cosy, vaguely 1950-ish feel. You just know those cars are going to be on their merry way in but a brief flicker of time, off to explore the majestic vistas of our lovely land. Reality is a bit different. Sitting in the sweltering heat at a standstill behind hundreds of other cars waiting their turn to pay the toll, I had a lot of time to look at that picture, and envy the chemical enhancements that must have brought this vision to the mind of its conceptualizer. That must have been one hell of a trip. The first flaw in this premise is, obviously, the fact that the freeway traffic all has to come to a stop to pay the toll, thus negating one of the major reasons people choose to use the interstate freeways. The I-Pass system seems to have been a half-hearted effort towards alleviating this, but when I inqured about buying one at a travel oasis, I was told that a pass was fifty bucks, cash only. Considering I was only in Illinois as long as it would take me to travel\* out\* of Illinois, fifty dollars seemed a bit excessive. I imagine many travellers would feel the same way, and thus, a majority of the road’s users are going to have to go through the cash tolls. But even the I-Pass system didn’t help matters, because traffic was packed for miles behind the tollbooths, and they couldn’t even get to where the road widened to allow I-Pass users into another lane. Yes, I said “packed for miles.” I do not exaggerate. At seven PM on Sunday night, I crept along, stop-and-start behind a line of cars which wound out of range of sight. I was at that particular toll for 45 minutes. Every toll took at least fifteen minutes. I don’t even want to talk about Chicago. The signs promise that this will all magically vanish once construction is done, to which I have to shake my head in astonishment that anyone ever bought that line. One of the tollbooths at which I sat for twenty minutes was fully operational-- it just couldn’t process cars fast enough to avoid a traffic jam. It’s uttrerly impossible that they ever could. When we passed Gary, Indiana, a miraculous change took over. Traffic became smooth again, soaring along with cheerful disregard for the speed limit. I think we were all a bit giddy from the heady sensation of being able to _drive_ after putting along at golf-cart speeds through an entire state. Yes, I said an _entire state_. The parts of the road upon which traffc flowed as God intended were so rare as to be forgotten. I remember the entire state being one of steering-wheel pounding, screeching, near-to-tears frustration. It took us twice as long as it should have to get through it. I felt like casting myself from the car and kissing the earth of Indiana. We passed through one booth, claimed our ticket, and sailed through the state unhindered until we reached our exit, paid the toll and drove away, thanking God that someone who had higher than the brain-power of a retarded yak had designed exit tolling. [/QUOTE] You poor thing. You should have asked someone before attempting to navigate the gauntlet. I always tell people to plan on going through Chicago after 10:00 pm and before 5:00 am. The tollway system in Chicago sucks the big one. I usually take the train when I go into the city. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/68 "2006-08-02T20:31:46Z")
One other thing to add…at one time we had the busiest tollway system in the nation. With O’Hare right there and a gazillion cars going in and out of the city, the exit system simply wouldn’t work. The congestion wouldn’t be any better. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/69 "2006-08-02T21:18:27Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] This is the thing I don’t understand. Have you never driven through Chicago before? [/QUOTE] I’ve been to Chicago but have never driven through it. (Took the trains.) > [@](#): > > The open-road tolling is an improvement because, if you have an I-Pass, you NEVER have to stop. That’s the point. No stopping at the beginning. No stopping at the end. No stopping in-between. If you don’t have an I-Pass, you have to stop, true, but anyone can get the I-Pass. I wonder, though, if traffic will back up in the toll lanes to the point where it flows over into the freeway lanes. The pictures I saw didn’t seem like they left a huge amount of space. > [@Pixisis](#): > > Is exit tolling “traditional” ? IIRC, barrier tolls (toll plazas in the road) were common before exit tolling. My apologies. Until eight years ago, I rarely used toll roads. My parents had what seems like a moral objection to them, and it sort of “stuck” with me not to use them. My husband uses them on occasion when we travel, and the toll roads have always been at the exits, so I thought this must be a “new” system. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/70 "2006-08-02T21:29:41Z")
[QUOTE=Edward The Head] If they are going to charge for the roads why not do what the Europeans are doing and make you buy a sticker every year? I know the Swiss have done this and they have in Hungry as well. [/QUOTE] Ummm…you do realise that many European countries work on old-fasioned toll systems? Italy and France are two that come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/71 "2006-08-02T21:32:13Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] I’ve been to Chicago but have never driven through it. (Took the trains.) [/QUOTE] Ah…makes sense, now…seems as though you do not have experience with toll booths in general. I think that the type Chicago has is the “traditional” type, and the others are examples where improvements have been attempted. > [@](#): > > I wonder, though, if traffic will back up in the toll lanes to the point where it flows over into the freeway lanes. The pictures I saw didn’t seem like they left a huge amount of space. That’s a good question. In my experience so far, I would say no, this is not a problem, because most people are using I-Pass who go through the tollbooths with any regularity (the doubling the fee for cash is a powerful incentive for commuters). I have only gone through them one time on the weekend, when it is probable that the # of non-I-Pass cars would increase greatly, and it was not a problem that time, either. Hopefully, they took the potential # of non-I-Pass users into account when they planned it! ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/72 "2006-08-02T21:44:05Z")
I just drove the 407 in Toronto. I was very impressed with the system and will gleefully pay the bill when it arrives in a few weeks. I think this is a far superior system to any other type toll. Even if some people don’t pay, it would undoubtedly be cheaper than to pay the salaries/wages, etc. of all the toll booth workers. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/73 "2006-08-02T21:44:07Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] Yes, I said an _entire state_. The parts of the road upon which traffc flowed as God intended were so rare as to be forgotten. I remember the entire state being one of steering-wheel pounding, screeching, near-to-tears frustration. It took us twice as long as it should have to get through it. I felt like casting myself from the car and kissing the earth of Indiana. We passed through one booth, claimed our ticket, and sailed through the state unhindered until we reached our exit, paid the toll and drove away, thanking God that someone who had higher than the brain-power of a retarded yak had designed exit tolling. [/QUOTE] This is why I take Route 30 instead of toll portion of I-80 and likewise find alternates for I-90. Sure, you have to deal with traffic lights and occassional slow speed zones, but your AVERAGE speed over a long distance is higher because you almost never encounter traffic jams of the sort you get on the interstates around here. A 65 mph speed limit does you no good if traffic is slowed to 5. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/74 "2006-08-02T21:53:40Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] Yes, I said an _entire state_. The parts of the road upon which traffc flowed as God intended were so rare as to be forgotten. I remember the entire state being one of steering-wheel pounding, screeching, near-to-tears frustration. It took us twice as long as it should have to get through it. I felt like casting myself from the car and kissing the earth of Indiana. We passed through one booth, claimed our ticket, and sailed through the state unhindered until we reached our exit, paid the toll and drove away, thanking God that someone who had higher than the brain-power of a retarded yak had designed exit tolling. [/QUOTE] This is why I take Route 30 instead of toll portion of I-80 and likewise find alternates for I-90. Sure, you have to deal with traffic lights and occassional slow speed zones, but your AVERAGE speed over a long distance is higher because you almost never encounter traffic jams of the sort you get on the interstates around here. A 65 mph speed limit does you no good if traffic is slowed to 5. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824/75 "2006-08-12T17:55:49Z")
[QUOTE=SanibelMan] Here’s what I don’t understand - this “open road tolling” will still require an electronic tag, if I understand correctly. Since they’re spending all this money to upgrade it, why not just make it like the [407](http://407etr.com/) around Toronto, which lets you cruise through at full speed and sends a bill in the mail? That way there’d be no backups at the toll booths. [/QUOTE] The 407 requires a transponder unless you’re willing to pay the $3.50 per trip video toll charge. That’s in addition to your normal kilometerage charge. My company prohibits me from using the 407, so if I have to run to a supplier, I happily make my salary while stuck on 401 which is a lot more costly than paying the toll would be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-illinois-open-road-tolling-was-an-incredibly-bad-idea/366824.md?page=3)