# The Impending Attempt to Oust Speaker McCarthy {10/1/2023}; Patrick McHenry is now Speaker Pro Tempore {2023-10-03} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958 "2023-10-01T15:58:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/241 "2023-10-03T23:18:29Z")
Does McHenry get to make a super secret list of successors? Could he just put Mccarthy at the top of his list and then vacate the Speaker’s seat, and hand it back to Kevin to serve as Speaker Pro Tem until the end of the term, all without having to “run” for the gavel again? ETA: nm. I see now that nothing can be done with a temp Speaker. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/242 "2023-10-03T23:19:35Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > According to a Fox actual newsperson, > … On which network did you find such a person? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/243 "2023-10-03T23:19:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > According to a Fox actual newsperson, the House can not do anything - not even a resolution for the Girl Scouts - until a permanent Speaker has been elected. So then what happens in November when the 45 day budget extension expires? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/244 "2023-10-03T23:31:27Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Does McHenry get to make a super secret list of successors? I think the answer involves interpreting pages 1-2 here: > **[118-House-Rules-Clerk.pdf](https://rules.house.gov/sites/republicans.rules118.house.gov/files/documents/Rules%20and%20Resources/118-House-Rules-Clerk.pdf)** > > 292.34 KB I would say that McHenry could legally create a new list. But since he’s close with McCarthy, he probably is fine with the current one. I think that the eight Republicans who voted against McCarthy will be mightily disappointed if the GOP caucus gives up on electing a non-pro-tempore speaker. TV commentators may be as clueless as I am as to whether McHenry will stick. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/245 "2023-10-03T23:32:35Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > On which network did you find such a person? I don’t know his name, but I’ve seen him a bunch of times. An older guy who just reports straight news. Even when on Laura Ingraham. > [@Atamasama](#): > > So then what happens in November when the 45 day budget extension expires? They have to have a Speaker by then. Long before then. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/246 "2023-10-03T23:44:46Z")
withdrawn, factual question ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/247 "2023-10-03T23:48:11Z")
McCarthy said he’s not going to run again, which might make this a lot more complicated. (via the website formerly known as twitter: [https://twitter.com/SpeakerMcCarthy/status/1709349632315199968](https://twitter.com/SpeakerMcCarthy/status/1709349632315199968)) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/248 "2023-10-03T23:49:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > What was he thinking? I think that he was thinking that the crazy caucus would never agree to any budget that had a chance of passing the senate and getting signed by Biden, and that the government would only be re-opened is if the went over their heads at which point they would move to kick him out. So it really came down to did he want to delay his execution a few days/weeks/months during which the government would be shut down and all blame would undeniably be cast at him and the dysfunctional toddlers over which he presided. I’m not at all surprised that in the end he decided to say “fuck it kill me now!” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/249 "2023-10-03T23:52:26Z")
Seen online: The GOP learns the hard way: turning the base up too high blows out your Speaker. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/250 "2023-10-03T23:52:54Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > I’m guessing that what we have now is McHenry as the speaker pro tempore all the way until the next Congress is seated after the elections. > > According to a Fox actual newsperson, the House can not do anything - not even a resolution for the Girl Scouts - until a permanent Speaker has been elected. Committees can still run, however. > > Looking online, I found the opposite statement: > > > “The Speaker pro tem could stay in the chair,” Josh Huder, a senior fellow at the Government Affairs Institute at Georgetown University, [wrote on X,](https://x.com/joshHuder/status/1709227030670192861?s=20) formerly known as Twitter. “There’s not [a] forcing mechanism for a new election, nor are there any overt restrictions on the power the pro tem would wield. The support of the conference would dictate the durability of this.” I think what authority the Speaker Pro Tem (SPT) has depends on the interpretation of House Rule 8.3(A), which reads: _In the case of a vacancy in the Office of Speaker, the next Member on the list described in subdivision (B) shall act as Speaker pro tempore until the election of a Speaker or a Speaker pro tempore. Pending such election the Member acting as Speaker pro tempore may exercise such authorities of the Office of Speaker as may be necessary and appropriate to that end._ It’s that “to that end” that would seem to limit the SPT’s authorities to those “necessary and proper” to facilitate the election of a Speaker or a Speaker pro tempore. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/251 "2023-10-03T23:59:51Z")
McCarthy should run for President. I thought Trump was the most bitter person in the world, but McCarthy’s press conference is so bitter against Matt “he’s never said anything true” Gaetz that he seems to be running for that title. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/252 "2023-10-04T00:04:47Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > It’s that “to that end” that would seem to limit the SPT’s authorities to those “necessary and proper” to facilitate the election of a Speaker or a Speaker pro tempore. I’m no lawyer, but: Your interpretation is the literal one. But it also is somewhat absurd. Normally, when there is a speaker election in the House, it is at the beginning of a new congress. So there is no existing speaker. So there normally is no role for a speaker when electing a new speaker. This means that there are no necessary speaker duties to facilitate the election of speaker. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/253 "2023-10-04T00:11:07Z")
The rule only applies in the instance of a vacancy arising in the Speakership during a session. It can’t apply during the initial election of a Speaker because there are no sworn Members of Congress and therefore no rules. And I think limiting the SPT’s authorities to helping organize the election for the next Speaker is wise. Otherwise – since the Speaker names his successor – he can just name his best crony knowing that he’ll carry on his wishes. You could also end up in the ludicrous position where the SPT names the former Speaker as _his_ successor, then resigns and puts the vacated Speaker right back in office. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/254 "2023-10-04T00:14:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > McHenry is in the district next to mine. And he’s…not crazy? I mean, his views are solidly awful. But I don’t think he is anything like Madison Cawthorn. he believes in constituent services, and in governing well, and at this point, that puts him above many other Republicans. Is he better than McCarthy? If so then it seems that Gaetz’s motion to vacate had a bit of a backfire, although I suppose Gaetz could vacate again. If I were McCarhty I would have seeded my list of replacements such that each one is incrementally less right wing than the last, just to spite Gaetz. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/255 "2023-10-04T00:16:06Z")
I don’t think there’s anyone to vacate. McHenry isn’t actually Speaker, but it’s not clear if he has the powers of the Speaker or not. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/256 "2023-10-04T00:18:50Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Like i said upthread, Gaetz is doing this because he’s going to run for governor of Florida. Hmm, what is his position on Disney? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The GOP learns the hard way: turning the base up too high blows out your Speaker. Genius. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/257 "2023-10-04T00:19:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Hmm, what is his position on Disney? …This is P&E, if this was the Pit I’d have a really good answer. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/258 "2023-10-04T00:20:40Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Your interpretation is the literal one. > > But it also is somewhat absurd. > > Normally, when there is a speaker election in the House, it is at the beginning of a new congress. So there is no existing speaker. So there normally is no role for a speaker when electing a new speaker. This means that there are no necessary speaker duties to facilitate the election of speaker. I think you’re misunderstanding it. > _In the case of a vacancy in the Office of Speaker, the next Member on the list described in subdivision (B) shall act as Speaker pro tempore until the election of a Speaker or a Speaker pro tempore. **Pending such election** the Member acting as Speaker pro tempore may exercise such authorities of the Office of Speaker as may be necessary and appropriate to that end [i.e., “such election”]._ The only legitimate end is “the election of a Speaker or a Speaker pro tempore”. The acting speaker can only exercise authority toward that end. Yes, normally there’s no speaker when a speaker is elected. But there **are** authorities the Speaker has, and they’d be useful as hell during the election of a speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/259 "2023-10-04T00:20:56Z")
Here is what the washington post says > A constitutional expert said it is likely that Rep. Patrick T. McHenry (R-N.C.), now the speaker pro tempore, does not hold the title of speaker and, as a result, would likely not be in the presidential line of succession. It would instead likely go directly to Senate pro tempore, Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.). > > “The House is on untested ground,” said Sarah Binder, who studies congressional and legislative politics at the Brookings Institution. > > She said that McHenry can only fulfill duties that may be “necessary and appropriate” as speaker pro tempore pending an election of a speaker, but he cannot do much else. > > “Prevailing view is that means that McHenry can only exercise powers of speaker towards the end of conducting new speaker election,” she said in an email. “There are other experts outside the House who read the clause a bit more broadly to suggest that ‘necessary and appropriate’ could be broader than just overseeing an election.” > > Binder said it seems leaders on the Hill appear to be coalescing around that more limited interpretation, meaning McHenry’s powers could be narrow. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/260 "2023-10-04T00:22:06Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > You could also end up in the ludicrous position where the SPT names the former Speaker as _his_ successor, then resigns and puts the vacated Speaker right back in office. That’s a good theoretical point on a issue that soon may be far from theoretical. Politicians at this level rarely give up power voluntarily. So if the GOP proves unable to elect a real speaker, McHenry will try acting like one. And of course he won’t turn around and give his speakership back to McCarthy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958.md?page=14)