# The Impending Attempt to Oust Speaker McCarthy {10/1/2023}; Patrick McHenry is now Speaker Pro Tempore {2023-10-03} **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958 "2023-10-01T15:58:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/341 "2023-10-04T15:05:08Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Possibly Jefferies goes up to Republican leadership and hands them a list of Republicans they are willing to vote for as Speaker. Unlike McCarthy, Jeffries is a good enough politician to make that a win for the Dems. When the House is so closely divided, I do not see why the names on the list have to be affiliated with a party. But it they do, list the five GOP Supreme Court justices. Alito might be as bad as Scalice as speaker, but we’d open up a court vacancy. More seriously, there are nominally Republican federal judges known for treating all parties fairly. They would be much better than even the most moderate sitting GOP House member. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/342 "2023-10-04T15:22:16Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > At that point, they’ll marginalize the MAGAts, and will have to reach across the aisle at least a little bit to get the votes needed to pass anything. And then they get primaried to oblivion next year and there’s already large pots of money for their challengers. It’s a tough spot. I see a low, low, low, low probability chance enough of the swing district Rs decide to go independent or simply brave out the chance they’ll get tossed ahead of the next elections. But, as we’ve seen so far this year, they seem to be entirely cowed by the FC ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/343 "2023-10-04T15:25:16Z")
Jim Jordan announces he’s running for Speaker: > **[Jim Jordan becomes first to announce run for speaker](https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2023/10/04/congress/jordain-officially-in-00119892)** > > His candidacy will likely run right into Majority Leader Steve Scalise (R-La.), who is also considering a speakership bid and has worked to court conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/344 "2023-10-04T15:30:30Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s a tough spot. Yes, but it’s a spot they put themselves in by letting it go on this long. Ultimately they have to either put in the work to fix it, or capitulate entirely to the crazies. This is not a problem the Democrats are able to fix. Even if they won 2024 in a landslide, taking the Presidency and winning control of both chambers in Congress, the GOP will still be spinning out of control. Until the Republicans themselves step up to fix it, this will just keep happening. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/345 "2023-10-04T15:43:26Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > My question is, other than electoral advantage, how do they see this enabling Democrats to further their legislative & governance priorities before the next election (including the very basic priority of keeping the government funded). Okay. It opens up a very slim but still non-zero possibility of something weird happening that gives Democrats more power, such as: a better Republican than McCarthy, who was one step from as bad as it gets; a few Republicans get fed up and leave their party, giving the Democrats a slim majority; some weird parliamentary rules with no real Speaker that allows Democrats to actually advance bills and force votes; something even weirder. But that’s not why they did it, IMO. They did this because the Republican party today is an inherently chaotic and nihilistic group that can’t be negotiated with, trusted, or anything like that. I see no reason to believe why leaving McCarthy in power makes this any better. It’s still the party of chaos, hatred, etc. – the party of Trump. It’d be like voting to face the lion because the rest of the predators might be worse – it’s still a deadly, wild animal that can’t be trusted, reasoned with, etc., and there’s no reason to believe that this lion is actually safer than the crocodile, tiger, grizzly bear, shark, leopard, etc… it might actually be worse. Maybe we’ll end up with a kitty cat, unlikely as it would be! So vote against the predator no matter what, and maybe something better will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/346 "2023-10-04T16:01:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > the Republican party today is an inherently chaotic and nihilistic group that can’t be negotiated with, trusted, or anything like that. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until democracy is dead! ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/347 "2023-10-04T16:12:03Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Until the Republicans themselves step up to fix it, this will just keep happening. This is where the issue is rooted - the Republicans can’t see that there’s anything to “fix” - to them the only broken stuff is over on the Demoncrats’ side. To them, everything is hunky-dory in their own ranks, and McCarthy was just a bad apple who was not carrying water for the cause. Otherwise, they’d find a way to crush the Gaetz rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/348 "2023-10-04T17:20:30Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > His biggest weakness was that McCarthy wanted so, so badly to be Speaker. Heh. _“My dream is to be the next Newt Gingrich. The man [shifted paradigms!](https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/11/06/newt.stuns/)”_ Some guy in 2048 : _“My dream is to stand on the shoulders of Newt Gingrich and Kevin McCarthy. Those guys’ accomplishments were unprecedented!”_ ETA: Anybody think they’d ever look back with nostalgia to Paul Ryan’s skillful mastery of the Speaker’s gavel? ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/349 "2023-10-04T17:23:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until democracy is dead! Maybe we can crush it in a hydraulic press. ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/350 "2023-10-04T17:44:07Z")
Or the time-honored (and stolen!) SDMB tradition; “Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.” ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/351 "2023-10-04T17:45:01Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > other than electoral advantage Isn’t this enough, though? If letting the Rs self-destruct allows the Ds to take the House back next year, then there’s your answer. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/352 "2023-10-04T17:47:17Z")
Apropos of nothing, this book cover has aged terribly: > **[Young Guns](https://books.google.com/books?id=RW6pxRN2JysC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false)** > > America urgently needs a new direction. But who will provide it? The time has come to move the country forward with a clear agenda based on common sense for the common good. THERE IS A BETTER WAY. Make no mistake: Congressmen Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan,... ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/353 "2023-10-04T17:51:36Z")
I think it’s a case of elections have consequences. GOP voters chose this party in it’s current form to be in the majority. They should get what they voted for. If that helps the dems in 2024 that’s not just good for the dems, it’s good for the functioning of democracy. Political parties that won’t learn until they pee on the electric fence themselves should have the chance to do that, and then voters should get to decide if it was really worth it in the next election. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/354 "2023-10-04T18:03:48Z")
The famous quote from H.L. Mencken: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/355 "2023-10-04T18:56:54Z")
Yeah but you can’t help but when Gaetz or Biggs or Greene or Boehbert talk about speaking for the true conservatives of America, to think “ummm no, you don’t, at best you speak for _your_ district’s voters.” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/356 "2023-10-04T19:10:34Z")
I’m going to have to rewatch the original speaker debate but there was one member of the Freedom Caucus that was speaking in support of the FC candidate for the speakership He talked about how the SotH should be a leader for the whole house. We need to function for the benefit of America, etc. that even though he was an FCer I thought, “He should be Speaker. I disagree with him politically but he’s the only one that understands what the job is.” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/357 "2023-10-04T19:13:39Z")
They all understand what the job is. Most of them don’t give a shit and neither did the FCer in reality. A lot of what Gaetz said yesterday would have seemed righteous if I didn’t know he was actually scum. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/358 "2023-10-04T19:23:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But that’s not why they did it, IMO. They did this because the Republican party today is an inherently chaotic and nihilistic group that can’t be negotiated with, trusted, or anything like that. I see no reason to believe why leaving McCarthy in power makes this any better. It’s still the party of chaos, hatred, etc. – the party of Trump. It’d be like voting to face the lion because the rest of the predators might be worse – it’s still a deadly, wild animal that can’t be trusted, reasoned with, etc., and there’s no reason to believe that this lion is actually safer than the crocodile, tiger, grizzly bear, shark, leopard, etc… it might actually be worse. Maybe we’ll end up with a kitty cat, unlikely as it would be! So vote against the predator no matter what, and maybe something better will happen. I get all that and it’s reasonable. I just hate to see an unmanaged shutdown and possible loss of Ukraine funding, and I feel like waiting the rest of the election cycle is too long. But maybe there was no alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/359 "2023-10-04T19:29:00Z")
A Republican party in disarray will certainly lead to destruction and damage. But a Republican party that is allowed to be functional will execute their playbook to destroy the country deliberately. Choose your poison. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/360 "2023-10-04T19:33:30Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I get all that and it’s reasonable. I just hate to see an unmanaged shutdown and possible loss of Ukraine funding, and I feel like waiting the rest of the election cycle is too long. But maybe there was no alternative. There’s really just no better alternative, as far as I can tell. Sticking with McCarthy wouldn’t necessarily mean avoiding an unmanaged shutdown and the resumption of Ukraine funding. It would only mean that if McCarthy thought it was to his political advantage. And even then, the Gaetz fuckery would come again and again. I think the Dems calculated that their political goals wouldn’t be advanced by propping up an absolute shitweasel of a speaker like McCarthy, nor would their electoral goals. Having the inevitable chaos occur 45 days before the next potential shutdown is probably the best time for it to occur. Hopefully the Republican party will emerge from their self-inflicted crisis wounded and confused, and Biden can continue to outmaneuver them. It’s possible that they’ll get a new leader who is both savvier and nuttier than McCarthy–less of a shitweasel and more of a Heath Ledger Joker. But that’s a risk that would come up anyway, and there’s a chance that Gym Jordan’s rise (or whoever else it turns out to be) will inflict further wounds on the Republican party among independents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958.md?page=19)