# The Impending Attempt to Oust Speaker McCarthy {10/1/2023}; Patrick McHenry is now Speaker Pro Tempore {2023-10-03}

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958>\
**Category:** Politics & Elections\
**Created:** [October 1, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958 "2023-10-01T15:58:13Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 21

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**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/401 "2023-10-05T04:20:35Z")

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The norms in contemporary American politics are that “the majority of the majority” dictates the agenda of the house, but 8 people just toppled a speakership. We’re already venturing into the unknown.

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**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/402 "2023-10-05T04:22:58Z")

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> [@flurb](#):
>
> I agree this is technically possible, but so far outside the bounds of historical and contemporary American politics that I can’t really wrap my head around it.

Oh, I don’t deny it’s a major change. And I wouldn’t expect them to make such a change lightly.

But at some point, trying to patch all the cracks in a failing structure becomes more effort than it’s worth. At some point, it’s better to just knock the thing down, and build it anew, from the ground up. If the US just keeps doing things the same old way, all they’ll get is the same old stuff.

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**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/403 "2023-10-05T06:27:08Z")

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> [@DSeid](#):
>
> If so how many Scaramuccis do y’all give him?
> 
> Why, given that the fundamentals won’t be all that different, would this be anything other than a rinse repeat cycle?

Because each Speaker is that much more likely to do whatever the FC wants whenever they want, and thus united, they can go about their business of tearing down Democrats and the government in general?

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**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/404 "2023-10-05T10:05:44Z")

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TIL that Tuesday was National Kevin Day. Did anything interesting happen? 😁

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**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/405 "2023-10-05T11:14:18Z")

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Got it, thanks. I agree that all Americans — the whole world, really — is worse off when the Republican Party is so patently dysfunctional. (NY Times headline today: “To the World, McCarthy’s Exit Is Just Another Example of U.S. Disarray”).

As I’ve said here, in the long run the Democratic Party suffers as well. Any major party needs a healthy, sane foil with which to compromise, learn from, and check its excesses. I truly look forward to the day the Republican Party regains its sanity.

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**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/406 "2023-10-05T12:47:27Z")

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Interesting theory about why McCarthy suddenly caved:

> [@](#):
>
> # [Democratic House Staffer Points Out That McCarthy Wanted Democrats To Vote “No” On CR last Saturday.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/10/4/2197446/-Democratic-House-Staffer-Points-Out-That-McCarthy-Wanted-Democrats-To-Vote-No-On-CR-last-Saturday)
> 
> I read this on [Digby’s Blogspot](https://digbysblog.net/2023/10/04/should-the-democrats-have-saved-mccarthy/), but a Democratic House staffer wrote on X (Twitter) that McCarthy’s last minute Continuing Resolution (CR) proposal last Saturday was actually a ruse to get Democrats to BALK and vote against keeping the government open. The Democratic House staffer, Aaron Fristchner, states that all Bat Signals pointed to an imminent government shutdown, then McCarthy sprung a 71 page bill that cut out Ukraine aid. Fristchner and the other Democrats believed that this was a bad faith effort to make Democrats vote against the CR and get all the blame for a government shutdown.

> **[Democratic House Staffer Points Out That McCarthy Wanted Democrats To Vote...](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/10/4/2197446/-Democratic-House-Staffer-Points-Out-That-McCarthy-Wanted-Democrats-To-Vote-No-On-CR-last-Saturday?utm_campaign=trending)**
>
> I read this on Digby’s Blogspot, but a Democratic House staffer wrote on X (Twitter) that McCarthy’s last minute Continuing Resolution (CR) proposal last Saturday was actually a ruse to get Democrats to BALK and vote against keeping the government...

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**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/407 "2023-10-05T13:08:55Z")

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In that case, since they were reflexively expecting Democrats to vote against a CR that they had no chance to read before voting on, does that make Jamal Bowman the hero of the hour?

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**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/408 "2023-10-05T13:12:07Z")

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the republicans don’t need to vote for jeffres. they just need to not be there or vote present. take the count down so that the dem votes are the majority. pelosi did that for boehner, he didn’t have enough votes and pelosi worked with her conference to make the votes he had the majority.

when mccarthy won the speaker vote, he won because the group that previously voted no voted present.

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**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/409 "2023-10-05T13:17:26Z")

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> [@rocking\_chair](#):
>
> pelosi did that for boehner, he didn’t have enough votes and pelosi worked with her conference to make the votes he had the majority.

What are you talking about?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/410 "2023-10-05T13:22:11Z")

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“If Jamal Bowman cared about the good of the country, he would have pulled a fire alarm before my speakership vote.”

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**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/411 "2023-10-05T13:31:41Z")

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by voting present you lower the over all vote count and don’t need 218. boehner won with 216 votes due to present votes.

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**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/412 "2023-10-05T13:44:36Z")

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No members voted present in January 2015. There were several NY Democratic legislators who were absent from the vote due to attending Mario Cuomo’s funeral that day, and others who couldn’t get back to DC due to weather. [Cite](https://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/john-boehner-house-speaker-vote-113992). The fact that Boehner lost so many Republican votes was a surprise to everybody. Regardless, there was certainly no organized effort by Democrats to make it easier for Boehner to be elected Speaker

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**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/413 "2023-10-05T13:54:27Z")

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yes, now i remember, i had it quite muddled up in my memory. thank you for the cite.

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/414 "2023-10-05T14:24:08Z")

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Another point occurred to me to explain why Democrats didn’t give any assistance at all to McCarthy in staying Speaker – a basic rule in public negotiations is that you have to take into account the likelihood of future negotiations. That means probably don’t give away the farm for peanuts, even if you really would like those peanuts – if you do, then future negotiators will know that you’re willing to give away a lot in exchange for very little. If Democrats had, despite McCarthy’s lying, false blame, Trump-excusing, Jan 6th denying, etc., helped McCarthy retain his job, future Republicans would have known that Democrats would bail them out with nothing in exchange. This way we help establish that if Republicans want help, there is a standard of decency they must adhere to, as well as offer actual concessions.

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**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/415 "2023-10-05T15:07:59Z")

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Well yeah. Pretty sure the D side would have helped him out in return for a significant price. McCarthy’s final offer was apparently nada. “Do what I want or I’ll hit myself and throw things on the floor!”

The Ds are the adults in the room in any adult who has dealt with toddlers know you do not negotiate during a tantrum. Doomed in the future if you do.

Maybe the Rs will coalesce behind another R. Scalise. Whoever. Hard to imagine any R being worse for the country than McCarthy on his short leash with spiked choke collar. And maybe they dysfunctionally vote and vote until they get past being the tantrum party and come to the D side to have a mature discussion about how to proceed. After they change into dry underwear.

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**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/416 "2023-10-05T15:12:53Z")

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Or maybe they can’t get their s\*\*\* together, the government stops being funded, Ukraine is not funded, millions of people are thrown out of work, the economy goes into recession or worse, and then the _really_ bad shit starts to happen.

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/417 "2023-10-05T15:14:52Z")

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That was just as likely no matter what the Democrats did.

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**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/418 "2023-10-05T15:15:16Z")

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Is that a reply to me or DSeid? Or both?

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**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/419 "2023-10-05T15:28:22Z")

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To you.

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**Author:** ![JoePockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8dc957/32.png) [@JoePockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoePockets)\
**Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-attempt-to-oust-speaker-mccarthy-10-1-2023-patrick-mchenry-is-now-speaker-pro-tempore-2023-10-03/990958/420 "2023-10-05T15:33:34Z")

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Well you can’t get much worse Gym Jordan ! But forget anyone moderate as many of today’s Republicans voters are not interested in what democrats think and the officials are fearful of being ko’d in there next primary. In much of South Carolina it’s not to wise “ or healthy “ to discuss the democrat position to your neighbors….In my first week I was bluntly told 1) Nice to meet you 2) Good Luck 3) Please keep your Northern Politic’s to your self!

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