# "The Impending Death of Pro Football" **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123 "2013-01-23T17:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/61 "2013-02-02T18:15:09Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > A football field is 120 yards by 53 1/2 yards. > > According to Wikipedia, a soccer field is 100-130 yards by 50-100 yards. It would require no modification to turn a football field into a soccer field and only slight modification to turn one into a high-level field. The problem is that at the highest level a pitch must be exactly 75 yards in width and also artificial turf is banned. > [@bump](#): > > IRC, the big deal was that David Beckham, world famous soccer star was marrying Posh Spice, lesser pop star, not the other way around. When they first got together in 1997 Victoria Adams (as she was then) was more famous than David Beckham and they enjoyed pretty much equal profiles when they got married in 1999, though ever since the early 2000’s David Beckham has definitely been the one with a higher profile. > [@phungi](#): > > Hate to rain on this parade, but incidence of concussions in soccer is near, or equal to that in football (1, 2, 3), with females at greater risk/incidence (1, 2, 3, 4) The issue here is long-term damage. Professional soccer hasn’t seen the problems arise on the same scale in former players and where they have arisen they have usually been associated with the old-style heavy lace-up footballs which haven’t been in use for many years. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/62 "2013-02-02T18:19:40Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > The problem is that at the highest level a pitch must be exactly 75 yards in width and also artificial turf is banned. And? At the highest level it must be 75 yards and [every MLS stadium is within 5 yards of that recommendation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Soccer_stadiums#Stadiums). If you can sit there and tell me every soccer field everywhere is exactly 75 yards in width, then we can agree that US high school would be severely lacking in some way by converting football fields that are only 60-75 yards across. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/63 "2013-02-02T18:24:17Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > At evidence of long term damage a la American Football? Relatively easy fix, padded helmets. Unfortunately, it appears that the problem is damage from sub-concussive blows that accumulate, leading to long-term effects. A recent study showed that elite soccer players with no history of concussion had changes in the white-matter of the brain as compared to swimmers ([ref](http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1391907)). However, other than a few case studies (e.g., [Paul Gascoigne](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Gascoigne)) there are yet to be former soccer players with dementia consistent with CTE. Helmets are designed to prevent skull fractures, but do not decrease translational force or rotational force sustained in collisions. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/64 "2013-02-02T18:38:50Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And? At the highest level it must be 75 yards and [every MLS stadium is within 5 yards of that recommendation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Soccer_stadiums#Stadiums). > > If you can sit there and tell me every soccer field everywhere is exactly 75 yards in width, then we can agree that US high school would be severely lacking in some way by converting football fields that are only 60-75 yards across. Every soccer pitch used in the Champions League, Europa League, Premier League, La Liga and probably a few of the other top leagues is in theory exactly 68 metres in width (so actually 75 yards isn’t quite right, more like 74.3 yards). There is some room (down to about 70 yards) in the regulations for exception due to stadium construction. I’m not saying that american football stadiums can’t be perfectly good dual-use soccer stadiums, but an american football stadium won’t automatically be ideal if it can’t accommodate a wider pitch or uses artificial grass. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/65 "2013-02-02T18:40:45Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > I’m not saying that american football stadiums can’t be perfectly good dual-use soccer stadiums, but an american football stadium won’t automatically be ideal if it can’t accommodate a wider pitch or uses artificial grass. And I’m telling you that every Major League Soccer stadium already use fields 70-75 yards in width and without artificial grass. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/66 "2013-02-02T18:47:56Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > Unfortunately, it appears that the problem is damage from sub-concussive blows that accumulate, leading to long-term effects. A recent study showed that elite soccer players with no history of concussion had changes in the white-matter of the brain as compared to swimmers ([ref](http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1391907)). However, other than a few case studies (e.g., [Paul Gascoigne](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Gascoigne)) there are yet to be former soccer players with dementia consistent with CTE. > > Helmets are designed to prevent skull fractures, but do not decrease translational force or rotational force sustained in collisions. Paul Gascoigne was not the most stable personality to begin with and chronic alcholism and drug use are almost certainly the major factors in his mental illness. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/67 "2013-02-02T18:53:04Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And I’m telling you that every Major League Soccer stadium already use fields 70-75 yards in width and without artificial grass. Yes, but are not nearly all MLS stadiums either soccer specific or built with dual use in mind? I don’t think stadium size is a major impediment to soccer in the US, it has plenty of stadiums that are close enough the highest international standards for soccer stadiums and at lower levels pitch size doesn’t matter quite as much. I’m just pointing out that an average american football stadium is not automatically equipped to host high-level competitive soccer. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/68 "2013-02-02T18:57:24Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > Yes, but are not nearly all MLS stadiums either soccer specific or built with dual use in mind? I don’t think stadium size is a major impediment to soccer in the US, it has plenty of stadiums that are close enough the highest international standards for soccer stadiums and at lower levels pitch size doesn’t matter quite as much. That’s my point. The US is huge. We have a lot of stadiums here. If you have even a middlingly popular team and you want your own stadium, it’ll get built. So all the MLS teams are in purpose-built stadiums designed for soccer. Field size is not a problem for the US soccer movement. Never has been, never will be. So why it was brought up at all (and then defended by a few unrelated people) is baffling to me. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/69 "2013-02-02T19:35:58Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > A football field is 120 yards by 53 1/2 yards. > > According to Wikipedia, a soccer field is 100-130 yards by 50-100 yards. It would require no modification to turn a football field into a soccer field and only slight modification to turn one into a high-level field. Is the turf any different for high-quality soccer fields? What about hardness? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/70 "2013-02-02T19:50:11Z")
Flag football? ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/71 "2013-02-02T20:34:52Z")
> [@bump](#): > > If the MLS was to shift to a September-March season, I think it would get a lot of viewership in the fall, and some in the spring before we’d have baseball and basketball to contend with at the same time. I don’t know about that. Unlike American football (which is played in nearly all types of weather short of a hurricane or blizzard with 6 inch visibility), soccer depends on the weather being at least somewhat tolerable for fans and players. A season lasting from September to March includes the most inclement months in most parts of the US and Canada. I can’t imagine a match being held, for example, in January “on the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field.” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/72 "2013-02-02T20:39:15Z")
Simplest way to make soccer more interesting to Americans: institute a rule that says the goalie cannot use his hands/arms to trap or hold the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/73 "2013-02-02T21:14:45Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > I don’t know about that. Unlike American football (which is played in nearly all types of weather short of a hurricane or blizzard with 6 inch visibility), soccer depends on the weather being at least somewhat tolerable for fans and players. A season lasting from September to March includes the most inclement months in most parts of the US and Canada. I can’t imagine a match being held, for example, in January “on the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field.” Soccer is traditionally an all-weather winter sport, there’s an [orange ball](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/04/article-0-1659F609000005DC-77_468x325.jpg) for playing in snow for example. Obviously in places like Norway, Sweden and Russia a summer schedule is preferred to a winter schedule, that said as FIFA drives towards a universal Winter schedule, even the Russian Premier League will be now run from Autumn to Spring. MLS could be played from September to March, but whether its better than the current schedule is the real argument. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/74 "2013-02-02T21:18:09Z")
One thing I wonder about american football is stagnation. Obviously its been around for a while and by attendances and TV ratings is still in rude health, but it’s also pretty insular without much outside reference. Has the game evolved much tactically, strategically or technically in the last few years or is a fairly conservative sport in terms of style of play? ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/75 "2013-02-03T01:38:56Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > Soccer is traditionally an all-weather winter sport, there’s an [orange ball](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/04/article-0-1659F609000005DC-77_468x325.jpg) for playing in snow for example. Obviously in places like Norway, Sweden and Russia a summer schedule is preferred to a winter schedule, that said as FIFA drives towards a universal Winter schedule, even the Russian Premier League will be now run from Autumn to Spring. > > MLS could be played from September to March, but whether its better than the current schedule is the real argument. If they’re thinking about playing soccer _in the middle of winter in Russia_, they’re obviously going to have to change the uniforms. I hope they don’t expect the players to go out −15 °F / −26 °C weather clad in only the shirts and shorts that were shown in your linked photo. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/76 "2013-02-03T02:25:08Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > If they’re thinking about playing soccer _in the middle of winter in Russia_, they’re obviously going to have to change the uniforms. I hope they don’t expect the players to go out −15 °F / −26 °C weather clad in only the shirts and shorts that were shown in your linked photo. They already do play (a few) matches in the Russian winter as when Russian teams qualify for European competitions some of the games may be scheduled in the winter. UEFA rules state that teams can choose to cancel matches if it is below -15 °C (5 °F) and a few matches have been played near this temperature recently (when FC Kazan played FC Twente of Holland it was officially 14.9 °C). Teams wear the same uniforms whatever the weather, but a lot of players would choose to wear gloves, a thermal undervest, thermal leggings and even hats and neckwarmers in addition in such weather. A couple of years ago FC Tom Tomsk of Siberia stated that they were trying to qualify for the UEFA Champions League. If that had happened I’d guess they might’ve had to play their home games somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123/77 "2013-02-03T16:31:24Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Simplest way to make soccer more interesting to Americans: institute a rule that says the goalie cannot use his hands/arms to trap or hold the ball. Er no. The game is developing nicely in the US and it is already the World’s most popular sport. It will continue to grow in the US to become the fourth or fifth biggest sport. Interest in the best EU leagues will also continue to grow. Back to American Football, any thoughts on how the lawsuits will go? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-impending-death-of-pro-football/648123.md?page=3)