# The incredible nerve of Walmart **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220 "2013-11-19T01:01:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/21 "2013-11-19T04:02:54Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > “Hang on just a tick… this redistribution of wealth is trickier than I thought…” What redistribution? According to [this](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/31/bernie-s/sanders-says-walmart-heirs-own-more-wealth-bottom-/), the family has more wealth than the bottom 40%… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/22 "2013-11-19T04:05:03Z")
> [@](#): > > The incredible nerve of Walmart Even reading your slightly slanted news story I’m not seeing how this shows ‘nerve’. One store in Cleveland, Ohio puts out a bin for employees who are down on their luck for Thanksgiving and this is a bad thing? 😕 > [@](#): > > I don’t shop at Walmart because of their history of poor treatment of their employees. Your choice, but out of curiosity, where do you shop that treats employees better? My son has worked at both the local Walmart and the local Smiths and Albertson’s and I can’t say there is much difference between them to be honest…nor between the Walmart and most of the fast food places either. > [@](#): > > When I read this, it struck me partly as business as usual for Walmart. > But aside from that, I don’t recall ever seeing a charitable donation solicited for the benefit of employees. Do you live in Cleveland? It’s pretty grim there atm from what I’ve read. And this is a single Walmart. Again, I’m not seeing why this is a bad thing…sounds to me like a pretty good idea. > [@](#): > > Sure, donate canned goods for the needy this Thanksgiving. But for the employees? I guess I don’t see the issue or the distinction. > [@](#): > > When a company as hugely successful as Walmart refuses to pay employees enough to eat, how is that different in principle from slavery? Yeah, it’s just like slavery…well, except the whole ‘free to leave any time’ and ‘free choice to take the job or take your services elsewhere’ and ‘you get a beating by the bosses if you don’t work hard enough’, plus all the ‘raped or murdered at the whim of the masters’ and ‘can be bought and sold any time, as well as their children’. Other than that though it’s just like slavery with no real difference in principal. Or, maybe it’s like the gulag! Or a concentration camp! Perhaps its the same, in principal to the Holocaust! The leaders of Walmart are just like Nazis…or like Communist dictators! 😛 What a ridiculous statement for you to make. Really sets the tone for the discussion and really makes things like ‘slavery’ meaningless when you make such a ridiculous comparison. > [@](#): > > he level of greed and selfishness expressed by the upper income class in this country today just renders me almost speechless. Sometimes all I can do is just sputter incoherently. And not shop at Walmart. But I doubt where ever you DO shop is markedly better. You do understand that most places that hire no skilled labor pay a minimum wage, right? Walmart does too…the exact same minimum wage as all the other businesses in your area. And most of the workers in that Walmart are kids, such as my son. The older workers probably aren’t making minimum wage, though they aren’t being paid as well as semi-skilled or skilled labor makes…because, you know, they aren’t semi-skilled or skilled labor. Anyone who doesn’t like the wage or the environment they are working in at Walmart or anywhere else are free to take their skills elsewhere. Oh, but they can’t because in principal this is JUST like slavery…forgot about that. > [@](#): > > Does anyone else think there is something wrong with this? Yes, I believe that a serious effort should be undertaken to abolish slavery in Cleveland. Other than that, no…I don’t see anything wrong with this and it seems to me that it’s not that bad an idea to allow for employees to donate food for the more needy employees in a city that’s economically hard pressed and for special holidays like Thanksgiving. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/23 "2013-11-19T04:39:39Z")
> [@dataguy](#): > > You seem to dismiss the entire point–the people working at **Walmart** shouldn’t be among the needy. And their “passing the hat” behavior extends beyond just the topic of the linked article. It’s estimated the average Walmart employee costs $2,100 in tax subsidies for things like food stamps and health care, as mentioned [here](http://www.ilsr.org/new-study-finds-walmarts-miserly-wages-cost-taxpayers/). This from a company with average annual profits in the $15 Billion range, and it has an upward trend over the last several years. Let me spell that out for you: Fifteen Billion Dollars Profit. > > We’re so used to having big numbers thrown around these days that we’ve lost a sense of scale. Why does a company with this huge level of profit have to skimp on employee wages and benefits, other than pure greed and callousness? Talking about big numbers, Walmart has about 1.4 million employees. Do you have any idea how much money it would take to give them a raise of even a dollar per hour? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/24 "2013-11-19T04:44:56Z")
About 2.9 billion assuming 40 hr/wk(which we know doesn’t happen) 52 weeks a year. Leaving the poor Walmart family with only 12.1 billion. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/25 "2013-11-19T04:51:17Z")
It is terrible that Walmart doesn’t compensate its employees more than what their labor is worth. Or buy them turkeys. Or houses for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/26 "2013-11-19T04:57:29Z")
Walmart has rated near or at the bottom of customer service for several years due to cutbacks on staff and hours. Seems they have a pretty shitty track record of determining the value of their employees. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/27 "2013-11-19T06:21:19Z")
I don’t get the hate for walmart. They aren’t paying their employees a living wage. They are paying them a legal wage. I think the minimum wage should be much higher, but it shouldn’t come as a shock that a company is doing this. I seriously doubt that they had some evil motive in running this food drive (which looks like it isn’t very organized). Many businesses run with profit as their pretty much only objective. They pay their employees the least amount they can to get the workforce they want. They also pay their suppliers the least amount they can - and everyone else. I have no idea about the strike thing, but the woman I saw on MSNBC that claims she was fired in retaliation for organizing was taking more than 2x the amount of break time she was allowed. This would have gotten you fired at any retail job I ever worked at. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/28 "2013-11-19T07:01:02Z")
> [@dataguy](#): > > When a company as hugely successful as Walmart refuses to pay employees enough to eat, how is that different in principle from slavery? > > \ > > Sometimes all I can do is just sputter incoherently. Well, you said it, not me. If the company isn’t paying employees enough to eat, then they would have starved long before Thanksgiving. Your article says this is for employees “when they face extreme hardships”. Now, people who are gainfully employed can “face extreme hardship” and since the vast majority of Walmart employees don’t, then it would seem that it isn’t Walmart that is the cause. It’s a huge employer, and some people who work there are going to be down on their luck. How many employees are part time, second wage earners in a household where the primary wage earner lost his/her job? I for one am not going to disparage people for being charitable and helping out their fellow workers who need help. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/29 "2013-11-19T08:09:26Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Walmart has rated near or at the bottom of customer service for several years due to cutbacks on staff and hours. Seems they have a pretty shitty track record of determining the value of their employees. Or (assuming you have your facts straight), they have an excellent track record of determining what their customers value most-- low prices over good customer service. They’re not in business to make you happy. They’re in business to make money. And seeing as how they are one of the most successful companies in the country, I’ll figure they know what their business practices need to be better than some anonymous poster on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/30 "2013-11-19T08:34:38Z")
Yes, the idea that companies have no obligation, moral, ethical, or otherwise, to anyone or anything other than profits and shareholder value is one of those things that’s definitely GD territory. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/31 "2013-11-19T09:22:10Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Talking about big numbers, Walmart has about 1.4 million employees. Do you have any idea how much money it would take to give them a raise of even a dollar per hour? Based on a 40hr work week that’s 2.912 billion. Which would leave them with about 12 billion and change. (Per year) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/32 "2013-11-19T10:14:39Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Yes, the idea that companies have no obligation, moral, ethical, or otherwise, to anyone or anything other than profits and shareholder value is one of those things that’s definitely GD territory. And yet they’re people. With free speech rights. Who are immune to basically any punishment regardless of which laws they break. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/33 "2013-11-19T10:19:30Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I think that was already addressed upthread, **monstro**. This isn’t “pass the hat for Jim”, this is very decidedly plural. This isn’t “an employee just had surgery and has some unexpected medical bills,” this is for people who can’t afford a Thanksgiving dinner. It’s a matter of scope and scale. While it is plural, it is also ‘funded’ through existing WalMart employee compensation, not through outside donations. This indicates to me that this donation bin is not (in and of itself) proof that WalMart is mistreating their employees, as a group. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/34 "2013-11-19T10:43:04Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Walmart has rated near or at the bottom of customer service for several years due to cutbacks on staff and hours. Seems they have a pretty shitty track record of determining the value of their employees. I’d say that 15 billion in profits would suggest that Walmart has accurately gauged the balance between how much a customer wants good service and how much the prefer lower prices and is paying in the right range to meet that balance. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/35 "2013-11-19T11:21:48Z")
I choose not to shop at Walmart “as much as possible” (which in practice is almost never), because they do provide the absolute shittiest customer experience possible. Paying a few bucks more for toilet paper or whatever is well worth it to me if I get even a modicum of friendliness from the staff. Good prices matter of course, but so does having a nice experience in the store, too. That being said, Walmart pays their employees shit and doesn’t often give full time schedules but that’s just par for the course for major retailers. Costco excepted, evidently. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/36 "2013-11-19T11:33:46Z")
I would like to see the Catholic Church make a big stink about this, start denying the sacraments to Walmart executives who are Catholic. It is against Catholic doctrine for profitable companies not to pay their employees a living wage. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/37 "2013-11-19T12:56:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Or (assuming you have your facts straight), they have an excellent track record of determining what their customers value most-- low prices over good customer service. They’re not in business to make you happy. They’re in business to make money. And seeing as how they are one of the most successful companies in the country, I’ll figure they know what their business practices need to be better than some anonymous poster on a message board. > **[9 retailers with the worst customer service](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/03/16/9-retailers-worst-customer-service/1991519/)** > > Customer service ratings are at record highs though expectations have been set low. > [@](#): > > Among all retailers ASCI rated, none received a worse score than Wal-Mart Stores (WMT) in its department and discount store rating. When graded for customer satisfaction as a supermarket, Walmart’s ACSI score was not much better at 72. This was by far the worst in that category. This is hardly new territory for the company. Walmart has been the lowest-rated department or discount store in the nation every year between 2007 through 2012. Worse, it has been the lowest-rated supermarket every year since 2005 ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/38 "2013-11-19T13:26:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And yet they’re people. With free speech rights. Who are immune to basically any punishment regardless of which laws they break. Nice. Immune to punishment? That’s news to Wal-Mart: [Here, they paid $86 million to settle a suit over unpaid labor in California, and $40 million in Massachusetts.](http://blogs.findlaw.com/decided/2010/05/86-million-walmart-settlement-in-wage-lawsuit.html) [A $50 million settlement in Colorado.](http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-533818.html) [$54 million in Minnesota.](http://www.startribune.com/business/35819094.html) They settle these suits to avoid potentially-crushing punitive damages, which could have been up to $2 billion in the Minnesota case alone. And now the [NLRB is pondering a lawsuit.](http://nypost.com/2013/11/18/labor-relations-board-considers-walmart-lawsuit/) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/39 "2013-11-19T13:46:24Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Immune to punishment? That’s news to Wal-Mart: > > [Here, they paid $86 million to settle a suit over unpaid labor in California, and $40 million in Massachusetts.](http://blogs.findlaw.com/decided/2010/05/86-million-walmart-settlement-in-wage-lawsuit.html) > > [A $50 million settlement in Colorado.](http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-533818.html) > > [$54 million in Minnesota.](http://www.startribune.com/business/35819094.html) > > They settle these suits to avoid potentially-crushing punitive damages, which could have been up to $2 billion in the Minnesota case alone. And now the [NLRB is pondering a lawsuit.](http://nypost.com/2013/11/18/labor-relations-board-considers-walmart-lawsuit/) Yeah, every few years, WalMart pays off a lawsuit for fifty million or so. WalMart’s last quarterly report was for $4.07 billion in sales in the previous quarter. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220/40 "2013-11-19T13:49:47Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > I don’t get the hate for walmart. They aren’t paying their employees a living wage. They are paying them a legal wage. And I don’t get why you don’t get the hate. What you describe right ther is exactly enough for people to hate them. People don’t expect someone to just do what the law allows. And, no, it’s not the same as other retailers. The ones I am familiar with have much better pricing structures. All of them around here at the very least have people working full time. Remember, this is the Walmart that championed Medicaid expansion specifically because they knew their employees would not make enough money to qualify for healthcare, and could get it from the government. The idea of “passing around the hat” as you call it has the fatal flaw that no one working at Walmart makes enough money to help out anyone else. And the point is that, if Walmart knows there are a lot of people who can’t make ends meet, why aren’t they hiring them full time so that they can make ends meet? They can then not have to hire so many people. If the employees were doing this, it would be one thing. But, with Walmart doing it, what they are essentially doing is saying “We know you are in need, so we’re going to arrange for other people to be able to help you out.” In other words, it looks like charity, but it’s really just Walmart mooching off its employees. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-incredible-nerve-of-walmart/674220.md?page=3)