The incredible nerve of Walmart

[LinusK]

@XT

I hadn’t noticed anyone in this thread saying anything about this, even in the hijacks about birth control. It’s funny to me that you’d bring this fascinating observation us when it has absolutely nothing to do with the OP or the thread in general.

Well, maybe you haven’t read carefully enough. I skim threads often enough, myself, so it’s not like I’m accusing you of a major sin.

The point is that people don’t get to choose their intelligence, or their circumstances, or their brain chemistry. Accusing people of being “stupid” for making bad choices is like accusing people of being stupid for being stupid. It’s a tautology, not a revelation.

More importantly, it’s a reflection of a lack of life experience, or of imagination - the imagination necessary to imagine being someone other than yourself.

[Voyager]

@BlinkingDuck

Amen brother. I see this ‘logic’ everywhere.

For example, there are certain things I see business do*. It seems dumb! I have a simple solution! So what is going on here…is everyone stupid or am I not seeing the whole issue and my solution has major problems/won’t work? Similar to this is condemning large groups of people for acting wrong and wondering why they are so stupid. IF large groups of people are doing it, it might not be as stupid as you think, though you can’t see how that would be.

Very true. My daughter is working on some research (which I don’t want to be too specific about) showing that some of the financial decisions poor people make that are largely condemned make sense given their circumstances.
In any case, poor people are said to make poor decisions which affect only them. Wall Street bankers make poor decisions that affect millions but the usual crowd doesn’t want to bother them with any regulations.

[dataguy]

Thought I’d throw one last log on the fire here.

[septimus]

@dataguy

Thought I’d throw one last log on the fire here.

Thanks for the link. But my question is an off-topic hijack:

How did you get the URL to point to a certain paragraph? Is that a special Alternet feature?

[dataguy]

@septimus

Thanks for the link. But my question is an off-topic hijack:

How did you get the URL to point to a certain paragraph? Is that a special Alternet feature?

Must be an Alternet feature. I didn’t do anything special, just copied the URL from the browser address bar.

[actualliberalnotoneofthose]

@puddleglum

Consider an unemployed man named Jim. He is young, has a GED, and no job skills to speak of. He sees in the paper two companies are hiring, Google and Walmart. He sends Google a resume and fills out an application at Walmart. His resume is quickly discarded and deleted at Google and he gets the job at Walmart for 9 bucks an hour. Why is Walmart the villain in the story? They provided Jim with a job and a place that he can acquire job skills so in the future he can make more. He took the offer because it was the best he could do for himself. No one else, not Google, not the Chicago Reader, or anyone else is providing him anything, yet only the company that gives him a job and has made him better off is singled out for moral opprobrium.
Getting a job does not make your employer your parent. It is not their job to provide for you, only to pay you what you have agreed upon.

How is Jim “acquiring skills” working an unskilled job? Almost all the Walmart defenders constantly say that all the jobs at Walmart require no skills. So I think it’s a false argument that Walmart helps the unskilled acquire skills, when they offer no opportunities to acquire skills or substantive advancement in most cases.

What they really do, is teach people like Jim what it’s like to have a low-paying low-skilled job, and prepare him for a lifetime of working multiple low-paying jobs while trying to eke out an existence. Maybe if his employer is really nice, and doesn’t require 24/7 availability for a part-time job, he could even get 2-3 minimum wage jobs at once.

Sure, some people might work at Wal-Mart while acquiring education/skills elsewhere, while using the WalMart job for survival in the meantime. I think that’s becoming less common. Service sector jobs used to be for teenagers, but it’s not like that any more. Millions of adults rely on these types of jobs as “careers.” So whether they were “meant to be” careers for adults or not, they are. Many jobs have no increase in productivity but still have increases in wages, but certain ones are accepted and others are singled out for derision.

[John_Mace]

@actualliberalnotoneofthose

How is Jim “acquiring skills” working an unskilled job? Almost all the Walmart defenders constantly say that all the jobs at Walmart require no skills. So I think it’s a false argument that Walmart helps the unskilled acquire skills, when they offer no opportunities to acquire skills or substantive advancement in most cases.

If anyone makes an argument that any job requires “no skill”, they are either being unclear or don’t know what they’re talking about.

What they really do, is teach people like Jim what it’s like to have a low-paying low-skilled job, and prepare him for a lifetime of working multiple low-paying jobs while trying to eke out an existence. Maybe if his employer is really nice, and doesn’t require 24/7 availability for a part-time job, he could even get 2-3 minimum wage jobs at once.

Alternatively what these people learn is that it sucks to try and support yourself on a MW or close to MW job, so best get some skills (either at WalMart or elsewhere) that will allow them to not end up doing that for the rest of their lives.

Seriously, folks, anyone who is mid 20s or older, in good health, and is working at a MW job as the sole bread winner of a family needs to take a good long look in the mirror and ask himself why he is one of the ~ 4% of Americans, many of whom are teenagers or working for a family’s 2nd income, still at the bottom of the economic ladder.

[emoticorpse]

@actualliberalnotoneofthose

How is Jim “acquiring skills” working an unskilled job? Almost all the Walmart defenders constantly say that all the jobs at Walmart require no skills. So I think it’s a false argument that Walmart helps the unskilled acquire skills, when they offer no opportunities to acquire skills or substantive advancement in most cases.

What they really do, is teach people like Jim what it’s like to have a low-paying low-skilled job, and prepare him for a lifetime of working multiple low-paying jobs while trying to eke out an existence. Maybe if his employer is really nice, and doesn’t require 24/7 availability for a part-time job, he could even get 2-3 minimum wage jobs at once.

Sure, some people might work at Wal-Mart while acquiring education/skills elsewhere, while using the WalMart job for survival in the meantime. I think that’s becoming less common. Service sector jobs used to be for teenagers, but it’s not like that any more. Millions of adults rely on these types of jobs as “careers.” So whether they were “meant to be” careers for adults or not, they are. Many jobs have no increase in productivity but still have increases in wages, but certain ones are accepted and others are singled out for derision.

First of all, there is no preparation needed for a lifetime of working multiple low-paying jobs, if you got to Wal-Mart like that you have already been prepared, whatever you actually mean by that. To say that there is a point when you are OFFICIALLY programmed for life to be a menial job occuppier, whatever. I personally believe everyone can change, it often doesn’t happen and if does it’s a little late in life to take advantage of that change, but I wouldn’t lay that on Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart actually does give people opportunity, anyone can get a job at Wal-Mart, because what I would agree with is that all entry positions to Wal-Mart do REQUIRE no skills, but the entry into a workforce is often the gate you can’t get through to begin with, many jobs REQUIRE, a long work history, good credit, or even a resume, Wal-Mart REQUIRES none of that. Another thing, Wal-Mart does give you experience, so you start off as a cashier or a cart pusher, you have the opportunity to develop skills like communication, and task management and a small level of leadership at least working under someone and witnessing how they perform their jobs, universal skills that many people who start off with don’t have which is why they are where they are. Those who take advantage of this rise within the company and from there they do have an opportunity to step up to supervisor, or even assistant manager, it takes time but so does anything. The point is the opportunity is there.