# The inevitable sex scene in Sci-Fi and Fantasy books. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481 "2009-02-19T00:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Prox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/21 "2009-02-19T04:35:24Z")
I don’t find sex any more prominent in SF, either. It’s pretty common overall. Usually, it’s not good. It’s either too flowery, or too mechanical. Sometimes sex serves the plot, but often it doesn’t. Either way, I prefer it when authors gloss over it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/22 "2009-02-19T04:38:08Z")
Harry Turtledove. _How Few Remain._ Mark Twain has a sex scene. **Mark Twain has a sex scene.** That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/23 "2009-02-19T05:02:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Harry Turtledove. _How Few Remain._ > > Mark Twain has a sex scene. > > **Mark Twain has a sex scene.** > > That is all. His is just fine. It’s General Custer’s that gave me the shudders. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/24 "2009-02-19T05:58:17Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > How soon they forget Philip Jose Farmer… Vardeman was like reading Penthouse Forum. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/25 "2009-02-19T12:01:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The only example of the truly gratuitous was the sex scene in _The Difference Engine_. What was gratuitous about it? We are talking about a prostitute here, after all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/26 "2009-02-19T12:06:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’d say at least 90% of the books that have made The new York Times Bestsellers List for the past, oh, 20 years have been genre fiction. I think there are two different definitions of “genre” being used here - I suspect the OP meant just the SpecFic field, not all the other genres you include as such.. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/27 "2009-02-19T12:32:10Z")
I’ve never found sex scenes in most sci-fi and fantasy to be all that common. Usually there’s nothing more than the occasional kiss; quite often you could theorize that everyone in the story is grown in pods for all the evidence of sex there is. There’s exceptions of course, but they are exceptions. And as far as Philip Jose Farmer goes . . . the Riverworld books were very tame sexually compared to some of his other stuff ( I can’t even recall any sex scenes of significance ). If Riverworld bothered you then his Herald Childe trilogy would make your hair fall out. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/28 "2009-02-19T12:44:37Z")
Jeez, I don’t even _remember_ the sex scene in _The Difference Engine_…though I do specifically remember the computer lubrication oil curdling in the heat wave of “The Great Stink.” I…guess what I’m saying is you probably won’t have to worry about gratuitous sex scenes in any science fiction _I_ end up publishing. :smack: :o ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/29 "2009-02-19T13:42:29Z")
The sex in Jean M. Auel’s stuff (that I read) seemed pointless. They are the New Breed! They have sex compatibility! ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/30 "2009-02-19T14:04:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What was gratuitous about it? We are talking about a prostitute here, after all. Yes, but that fact alone hardly justifies the scene. It’s entirely unnecessary for the plot (or what passes for in that book) and only serves to kill the momentum of the story and frankly bore the heck out of me. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/31 "2009-02-19T14:06:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’ve never found sex scenes in most sci-fi and fantasy to be all that common. Usually there’s nothing more than the occasional kiss; quite often you could theorize that everyone in the story is grown in pods for all the evidence of sex there is. There’s exceptions of course, but they are exceptions. > > And as far as Philip Jose Farmer goes . . . the Riverworld books were very tame sexually compared to some of his other stuff ( I can’t even recall any sex scenes of significance ). If Riverworld bothered you then his Herald Childe trilogy would make your hair fall out. No no, my objections to Riverworld have nothing to do with sex. They have to do with a plot that moves a lot without GETTING anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/32 "2009-02-19T14:41:29Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > It’s like playing to the SF fan and writer’s fantasies that if the hot women would just loosen up a bit they’d be screwing nerds all day long. That’s why they call it **Fantasy**! But to the OP…meh. Most sex scenes in SF/Fantasy are unbelieveably tame, if they exist at all. Anybody who can’t handle them should stick to reading…well, I’d be hard-pressed to name another genre that is tamer. The “Left-Behind” books, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/33 "2009-02-19T14:54:59Z")
Michael Crichton? I just finished reading three Crichton books – _Timeline_, _Congo_ and _Jurassic Park_. I don’t remember any sex scenes in any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/34 "2009-02-19T15:59:18Z")
I think a lot of it depends on when the book/story was written. I remember reading a short story by Anne McCaffrey (that later became the basis for the “Freedom” series) that was basically one long sex scene. McCaffrey said in the author’s note to the story that it had been written in the late 1960s when you had to have a sex scene if you wanted your stuff published. Of course she later inserted (ha) a pointless sex scene in _The Death of Sleep_ written in the late 80s/early 90s. That scene always kind of bothered me. In the late 70s/early 80s you pretty much had to have one of your female characters raped if you were a Feminist Fantasy Author (i.e., Marion Zimmer Bradley, Mercedes Lackey). Those always bothered me as well because they seem shoehorned in to make A Point. Notable exception: Robin McKinley’s _Deerskin_ where the rape scene is absolutely necessary to the plot. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/35 "2009-02-19T17:23:53Z")
What, no mention of Terry Goodkind yet? I can see where the OP is coming from here - there’s definitely a lot of spec-fic with really, really bad sex in it. I don’t think I’d characterize it as ‘most’, or even worse-than-other-fiction. In my case, though, I read a LOT of really, really terrible spec-fic as a kid. No filters whatsoever, just anything in the fantasy section at the library. So, yeah, bad spec-fic contains bad sex scenes, but so does bad romance (oh, god, my eyes!) Another factor that plays into this is that some of the early sci-fi writers were scientists first, writers second. That means that someone who can come up with great, awe-inducing ideas can still be incredibly awkward as a _writer_. Asimov, for instance, wrote some of my favorite books, but damn if his characters weren’t cardboard. I guess what I’m saying is, I think a lot of (especially older) spec-fic gets a pass on being poor writing if the ideas are good. So, you can have a book held up as amazing when the quality of the writing (and, as part of this, the out-of-placeness of the sex scenes) is pretty damn awful. Mainstream literature would get chucked if it fell in the same traps. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/36 "2009-02-19T17:40:04Z")
> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#): > > Yes, but that fact alone hardly justifies the scene. It’s entirely unnecessary for the plot (or what passes for in that book) and only serves to kill the momentum of the story and frankly bore the heck out of me. You just didn’t like the book at all - for me (who likes all but the last 2 pages), it was interesting - I admit I had a totally different picture of that woman in my head from her earlier appearance, which got shifted by that scene. Plus without that scene, there’s no pillow talk, which fills in some background for me. That, and it gives a decent insight into Mallory’s psyche. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/37 "2009-02-19T17:41:22Z")
It seems more common to me with urban fantasy - and I agree, I would rather it isn’t in there. I have complained about it more than once in our monthly book threads. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/38 "2009-02-19T17:54:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You just didn’t like the book at all - for me (who likes all but the last 2 pages), it was interesting - I admit I had a totally different picture of that woman in my head from her earlier appearance, which got shifted by that scene. Plus without that scene, there’s no pillow talk, which fills in some background for me. That, and it gives a decent insight into Mallory’s psyche. You’re right, I didn’t like the book at all. It reminds me of _Ringworld_ by Larry Niven. It’s all setting. The plot only serves to drive you around the setting so you can ooh and ahh at the cool ideas the author(s) had. In fact, the plot is almost completely arbitrary, and at the end, you’re left going “So that’s it? What was the point in all that?”. It’s not a novel, it’s a fictional travelogue. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/39 "2009-02-19T17:58:37Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Off the top of my head and it’s been quite a while since I read some of these (hence the ‘maybes’), many or most books by: > > Neal Stephenson > Bruce Sterling > William Gibson > Allen Steele > David Gerrold > Robert Heinlein (maybe) > Arthur C Clarke (the Rama books, except the first) > Fredrick Pohl > Larry Niven > David Wingrove > Frank Herbert (except Dune) > Norman Spinrad > Rudy Rucker (maybe) > Michael Crichton > John Varley > Alistair Reynolds (maybe) > Greg Bear (maybe) I haven’t read anything by anyone on your list except one book by Heinlein that I didn’t like, but I notice that they’re all men and, generally speaking, I find male writers really suck at sex scenes. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481/40 "2009-02-19T18:00:05Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > And no mention of Robert Silverberg or Michael Moorcock? They weren’t doing it in 1952. (Well, not writing about it, anyway.) Back then Farmer and Sturgeon were breaking new ground even getting close to sex. I think there are two answers. The first is that everyone does it, so what. The second is that at one point people put sex scenes in just because in the old days it was verboten. I’m not sure it is true anymore, but it sure was around Dangerous Visions time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-inevitable-sex-scene-in-sci-fi-and-fantasy-books-why/486481.md?page=3)