# The Insurgents are spinning the war with the help of our media! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525 "2005-01-19T13:26:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/21 "2005-01-19T16:20:58Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > That is the crux of the issue. The media will bend over backwards to report that one our guys screws up but will they report when a hundred innocent civilians are beheaded by insurgents or when they use their ‘sacred’ mosques as artillery wharehouses? Perhaps they hold “our guys” to a higher standard. Which seems perfectly reasonable to me. I also found one other quote from the article particularly telling: > [@](#): > > I believe one of the reasons for this shallow and subjective reporting is that many reporters never actually cover the events they report on. It appears many members of the media are hesitant to venture beyond the relative safety of the so-called “International Zone” in downtown Baghdad, or similar “safe havens” in other large cities. Because terrorists and other thugs wisely target western media members and others for kidnappings or attacks, the westerners stay close to their quarters. This has the effect of holding the media captive in cities and keeps them away from the broader truth that lies outside their view. The media isn’t reporting on all the good news because they’re the target of armed terrorists and thugs if they venture out of Baghdad or other large cities. But apparently, we should blame the media for this turn of events, instead of saying “Good news! Iraq is so out of control that terrorists and insurgents can apparently target whomever they damned well want outside of a handful of major cities!” ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/22 "2005-01-19T16:27:24Z")
Well if they don’t like it they can just drive to the airport and … oh wait they can’t do that either because the one of the most important roads in Iraq is too dangerous to do that on. _Sunshine and lollipops …_ ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/23 "2005-01-19T16:42:41Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > _Sunshine and lollipops …_ I’ll take a little of each please. Whatszat? No-one’s offering any? > [@Evil One](#): > > There seems to be a great deal of effort to avoid addressing your points, Uncommon… > > Perhaps the sand is more comfortable for certain heads. It’s certainly warmer and darker than having to face the simple fact that the media is focusing almost exclusively on the negative. I suspected as much when I started the thread. However, my understanding of this board is that even though many do not like to watch football on television, they are still able to critique the broadcasters. Maybe I was wrong. **Orbifold** , the flawed logic in your last statement is, how do the reporters get the negative stories? Are they being spoonfed? Or do they choose which to report. I agree with Ryan, some of the reporters are in a predicament as far as location goes. Should they be the ones that bring us the reliable news or should they be filtered out in favor of the more rounded reporting? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/24 "2005-01-19T16:52:17Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > More; > _"While the media was busy bashing the Coalition, Muqtada’s boys were kidnapping policemen, city council members and anyone else accused of supporting the Coalition or the new government, trying them in a kangaroo court based on Islamic Shari’a law, then brutally torturing and executing them for their “crimes.” What the media didn’t show or write about were the two hundred-plus headless bodies found in the main mosque there, or the body that was put into a bread oven and baked. Nor did they show the world the hundreds of thousands of mortar, artillery and small arms rounds found within the “sacred” walls of the mosque. Also missing from the coverage was the huge cache of weapons found in Muqtada’s “political” headquarters nearby. No, none of this made it to the screen or to print. All anyone showed were the few chipped tiles on the dome of the mosque and discussion centered on how we, the Coalition, had somehow done wrong. Score another one for the enemy’s propaganda machine. "_ First off, it’s inaccurate to claim that the U.S. media only reports the _bad_ things that happen to Americans. [Cite](http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=155018). What is that if not “good news” from Iraq, from ABC no less? What you and the good Lt. don’t seem to understand is that, besides the fact that it’s inaccurate to say the media doesn’t report the bad things the other side does, reporting on it doesn’t paint “The Coalition” in any better of a light. Would al-Sadr’s followers be kidnapping and beheading scores of people had the U.S. not toppled the government with inadequate troops to secure the country, or even the damned Capitol city? > [@](#): > > Nor was there any mention about the substantial progress these offensive operations continue to achieve in defeating the insurgents. Unfortunately, this sort of incomplete reporting has become the norm for the media, whose poor job of presenting a complete picture of what is going on in Iraq borders on being criminal. I’d like some proof that there is any progress. I don’t see how increased violence and declining control is progress. Elsewhere in his diatribe the Lt. claims that they killed 1500 insurgents and dealt a devestating blow to the insurgency in Fujalla. If it was so devestating then why has the death rate of U.S. troops increased almost monthly since “Major Operations” ended? > [@](#): > > Complete a multi-million-dollar sewer project and no one wants to cover it, but let one car bomb go off and it makes headlines. Well, since we blew it up, shouldn’t we put it back together? You don’t get parades and laurels for doing what you’re supposed to do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/25 "2005-01-19T17:03:08Z")
**U.S.** : As long as bombings are a daily occurance, that’s what you’re going to hear about 99% of the time on the news. That’s just the way news operates. It’s not bias, it’s what people want to read about. Put out two newspapers, one with all the negative news and one with all the positive news, and guess which one is going to sell and which one isn’t. I’m sure there are wonderful things happening everyday in Iraq, but we’re two years into this now and civilians are dying pretty much EVERY DAY from bombings. All the wonderful news in the world can’t outweigh that in importance, because it represents an almost complete breakdown of civil society. Not in all of Iraq, but in a very large portion of it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/26 "2005-01-19T17:07:24Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > We are lead to believe that there is no progress. What would _you_ like to see to indicate progress? Fewer Americans being killed each week, not more. Fewer Iraqis being killed each week, not more. Increasing security in at least the areas we claim to control, not decreasing - as has already been pointed out, it’s worth your life to travel from the Green Zone to the Baghdad airport now, there are increasing attacks _inside_ the Green Zone, and why must there still be a Green Zone after 2 years anyway? You must get it, if you want to convince us the facts are not what we’ve seen, show us those contrary facts. Diatribes like yours and the guy you quote don’t do it unless they are based on facts. That’s not so hard, is it? Some of us remember the body count reports from Vietnam. Even as a child then, I could tell from that there was nothing left to accomplish but to get the hell out. We are now hearing body count reports from Iraq as if their increase is a sign of progress. This guy Ryan is right to be frustrated with the local reporters’ haphazard exposure to life outside their hotel lobbies. They can only report what they see, and what they see is that not even the designated safe zone is safe anymore. Can’t really blame them for that, can you? But Ryan’s also in a position to help make trips outside safe enough for embedded reporters to go along. Is he doing it, or just whining about it, or is it just not possible for him to make \*anybody \* safe? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/27 "2005-01-19T17:12:51Z")
Lt Ryan complains that the media only talks about American casualties and doesn’t mention Iraqi casualties. That’s not true but even if it were how is that negative bias towards American troops? If the headline read “American forces inflict 50 Iraqi casualties” with no mention of the American losses, Ryan would surely claim that was more unfair. Or consider Ryan’s question, “What did the the media show or tell us about Margaret Hassoon, the director of C.A.R.E. in Iraq and an Iraqi citizen, who was kidnapped, brutally tortured and left disemboweled on a street in Fallujah?” Wasn’t her story printed and broadcast as a lead item for weeks? Haven’t all of the hostage situations been fully reported? Isn’t that part of what Ryan is complaining about? Ryan complains that the media gives the terrorists too much attention. And he complains the media doesn’t talk about them enough. Ryan complains that the media isn’t covering the real fighting going on. Then he complains when reporters won’t leave the battlefront to come cover the opening of his youth center. It seems to me Ryan just doesn’t like the fact that the media is reporting there’s a war being fought. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/28 "2005-01-19T17:18:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps the sand is more comfortable for certain heads. It’s certainly warmer and darker than having to face the simple fact that the media is focusing almost exclusively on the negative. Striking, the irony that someone who wishes to censor negative (as regards the US, presumably) information about the conflict in Iraq is referring to those who don’t as having their heads in the sand. The argument being made here is “the media is not reporting what I personally want to hear”. Too bad for you. This is not a very intelligent argument, and is along the lines of advocating shooting the messenger. If you or the OP can demonstrate that any of this unspecified negative reporting is factually untrue, please feel free to do so. If you wish to ignore this reporting because you don’t happen to like it for one reason or another, feel free to do so. You’d better have a pretty good argument, however, if you are going to claim that negative information concerning US operations in Iraq must be suppressed for our own good. So far, I haven’t seen one. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/29 "2005-01-19T17:25:59Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > **Orbifold** , the flawed logic in your last statement is, how do the reporters get the negative stories? Are they being spoonfed? Or do they choose which to report. Why, let’s ask the good colonel: > [@](#): > > With the press thus cornered, the terrorists easily feed their unwitting captives a thin gruel of anarchy, one spoonful each day. A car bomb at the entry point to the International Zone one day, a few mortars the next, maybe a kidnapping or two thrown in. All delivered to the doorsteps of those who will gladly accept it without having to leave their hotel rooms — how convenient. > > The scene is repeated all too often: an attack takes place in Baghdad and the morning sounds are punctuated by a large explosion and a rising cloud of smoke. Sirens wail in the distance and photographers dash to the scene a few miles away. Within the hour, stern-faced reporters confidently stare into the camera while standing on the balcony of their tenth-floor Baghdad hotel room, their back to the city and a distant smoke plume rising behind them. So let me see if I’ve got the colonel’s position straight: the reporters only see the bad news because they’re in Baghdad, and Baghdad is subjected to “a car bomb…one day, a few mortars the next”, and so forth. Meanwhile in the rest of the country, presumably good news abounds just waiting to be reported…but if a reporter leaves Baghdad or the other major cities, they become the target of insurgents and terrorists. In short, _according to the colonel himself_ Baghdad and other major cities are subjected to daily or near-daily terrorist violence directed against civilians, Iraqi police, and U.S. and coalition troops while the countryside outside those cities is so lawless that terrorists and insurgents can target whomever they please. This does not paint a picture of media bias, this paints a picture of a country that’s completely out of control. But we built a sewer! Great. Now we have a place to flush the ashes. But the insurgents are doing more horrible things than our troops! Yes, that is awful. But “dog bites man” isn’t a story, and “The U.S. Army–not actually as bad as terrorists” isn’t going to get stiched into a sampler any time soon. But we flattened Fallujah! Well, far be it from me to rain on Lt. Col. Ryan’s “symphony of destruction”, but as **Homebrew** said the coalition and civilian casualty rates haven’t exactly gone down since then. The Allies’ breakout from the hedgerows in WWII, to which Ryan refers, actually helped the Allies retake France. The coalition’s assault on Fallujah appears to have just shuffled the insurgents around like a hideous game of three-card monte. In short, I don’t think “media bias” is really the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/30 "2005-01-19T18:15:03Z")
No spin, just the facts. US combat related deaths, 2003, 2004 May 6 62 June 18 37 July 28 44 Aug 16 55 Sep 18 69 Oct 33 56 Nov 69 125 Dec 25 58 Source:[http://icasualties.org/oif/](http://icasualties.org/oif/) ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/31 "2005-01-19T18:23:32Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I realise that. > Here in the US we have our news ‘presented’ to us by the likes of the major networks and newspapers. Very few will dig into the internet to find positive aspects of the war. Kudos to you for doing that, but the reality is is that I speak on behalf of the majority of Americans who get their news spoonfed to them by the same tired spinnsters. > And even if some people do dig around for such alternative news sources they are less likely to believe them then they are the Big Three. Not all people but many. Oh, Jesus Christ allmighty. I am so utterly and completely sick about people bitching and moaning over media bias-- like it’s something new, or unexpected. Guess what? The media always _has_ been biased and always _will be._ > [@](#): > > Why should we have to _look_ for alternative positive news sources **Wrath** , **Fear Itself** , wouldn’t it make sense to have that included in the regular news? For the same reason that I can’t buy cultural anthropology tomes by Yale University Press from the gas station book rack-- it’s not what the public wants, and thus it’s not profitable. Why do you expect the media to spoon-feed you, anyway? Is it really too much to ask to have to expend five minutes of effort to get in-depth news? I guess I should go down to K-Mart and bitch because they don’t have a good sociology or biology selection in their book section. Why should I have to go to [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) to get good books? And damn my neighborhood grocery, anyway! They don’t carry tonkatsu sauce. What do you _mean_ I have to go to a specialty store? Wouldn’t it make sense to include it with the other sauces they carry? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/32 "2005-01-19T18:30:35Z")
> [@aahala](#): > > No spin, just the facts. > > US combat related deaths, 2003, 2004 > > May 6 62 > June 18 37 > July 28 44 > Aug 16 55 > Sep 18 69 > Oct 33 56 > Nov 69 125 > Dec 25 58 > > Source:[http://icasualties.org/oif/](http://icasualties.org/oif/) And in other news: [Iraqi Schoolchildren Receive Hockey Equipment](http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=48739) Our lads have not died in vain. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/33 "2005-01-19T18:33:04Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > The unfairness that Ryan shows is striking in that the media WILL report the burning buildings if it reflects negatively on US forces. Whooshed by Geraldo. That is really sad. Does the motto “if it bleeds, it leads” mean anything to you? Check out your local news sometime. Murders, fires, crashes are what is covered. Are you saying “forget about that provincial governor who just got blown up, show the new classroom instead?” Is that good journalism? And why don’t you tell us what percentage of Iraq is not safe enough to hold elections in while you are at it? We’re waist deep in the Big Muddy, and the old fool and his cohorts say to go on. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/34 "2005-01-19T18:48:41Z")
But the war in Iraq _isn’t_ going well, one soldier’s opinion to the contrary notwithstanding. I don’t understand what it is you want the media to do - stop reporting the deaths of American soldiers? Do more reporting of _Iraqi_ deaths? It’s ironic that right-wing hawks are castigating the supposedly left-leaning media for _not_ reporting how many Iraqis are killed, when liberals have been complaining about the utter lack of statistics of Iraqi deaths from the very inception of the war. Do you _really_ think the failure to report how many Iraqis are killed is due to _liberal_ bias? And I’m really getting sick of people comparing Iraq to WWII. News flash: We were ATTACKED by the Japanese in WWII. Not a “gathering threat of a possible arms buildup maybe sometime in the future”. I wouldn’t say WWII went well _at all_. We suffered massive numbers of casualties. But that’s not the point; the point is it wasn’t a CHOICE. It was a NECESSITY. And Iraq was NOT a necessity. Bush _tried_ to bill it as a necessity, but his evidence did not pan out. Then he re-billed it as a “liberation”. So don’t say, “Well in WWII, we had to do such-and-such to obtain X objective, so it’s just like Iraq…” because we didn’t have a CHOICE then. When you launch an unprovoked attack on another country, act like it’s gonna be a cakewalk, and send fewer troops than even YOUR OWN ADVISORS tell you you’re going to need, you are, quite simply, subject to a harsher standard of criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Biggles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/839c29/32.png) [@Mr.Biggles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Biggles)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/35 "2005-01-19T19:04:40Z")
from [http://www.juancole.com/](http://www.juancole.com/) > [@](#): > > For American observers concerned with Iraq not to realize how truly awful the situation is, and to fail to understand that the US faces a grave crisis if key policies are not changed, makes them poor Americans. The United States is a democracy and a democracy only works if the citizens are informed and exercise their faculties of critical reason. **Looking for token pro-American Iraqis to say nice things while ignoring all the evidence of US failure is pitiful.** I sometimes get messages from readers who are excited by all the rebuilding work the US has done in Iraq and think it is unfair for it to be overlooked. This way of thinking is just wrong. The British in India built railroads and lots of infrastructure. By the 1940s, no Indians were grateful, and they just wanted the British out so that they could have their independent country. The railroads, they said, were after all mainly built to transport British troops and merchandise. When you mess with a people’s independence, they stop being grateful for infrastructure. Ask King George III. (emphasis mine) I am quite aware of the positives going on in Iraq. I have gotten direct word from someone serving over there, but I have also read articles in the paper about the positive accomplishments. But at issue of these two divergent types of news, is the fact remains that our soldiers are getting killed or injured in the process. Taking in account we opted to invade and destroy the shit out of their country, there is an obligation to rebuild. If the reason(s) to invade were honorable and with merit, public opinion would more than likely be different despite the weighted news to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/36 "2005-01-19T19:06:27Z")
I think it’s pretty clear that the OP is fairly immune to counterarguments. I would ask why he considers the World Tribune a member of the “media”, when actually it’s just a [website run by the right-wing Unification Church, aka the Moonies.](http://newyorker.com/talk/content/?030908ta_talk_mcgrath) I’d also ask **Uncommon Sense** if, given that the WMD search ended quietly and unsuccessfully last month, there is any justification now for the 1,370 American soldiers who have died in this endeavor so far. Besides the hockey equipment, of course. And finally . . . _hockey equipment?_ (Although that’s not really directed at him per se.) ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/37 "2005-01-19T19:08:27Z")
LTC is Lieutenent Colonel not Lieutenent. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/38 "2005-01-19T19:11:53Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > And in other news: > > [Iraqi Schoolchildren Receive Hockey Equipment](http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=48739) > > Our lads have not died in vain. Did you even read your own cite? > [@](#): > > WITH HELP from home, **members of the New Hampshire National Guard’s C Company, 3rd Battalion of the 172nd Infantry (Regiment)** are playing street hockey during their down time in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/39 "2005-01-19T19:20:14Z")
I don’t blame Colonel Ryan one second for his writings that lament the bad news out of Iraq. He seems like a fine officer. And, as I have been told by many fine officers, their first responsibility is to their troops. That means that whatever they can do to keep morale up, they do. If officers start grousing in front of the men, I’m told, it’s all over, discipline breaks down, etc. So do I blame Ryan for seeing the glass as one-eighth full? Not at all. But I’m not so gullible as to believe that a career-track officer is going to tell the American people the full story of what’s going on over there. We did not invade Iraq because there was a shortage of schools there, or because Saddam was developing a new capability to produce new textbooks that contain a dangerous new strain of anti-Israeli hate propaganda. We invaded (allegedly) to drain a swamp of terrorism; but what we’ve got now, according to the CIA, is the most dangerous training ground for terrorism since the fall of Afghanistan. I’m happy for the schoolchildren, but holy cow, you’ve got to have a major-league agenda not to recognize that the situation is going from bad to worse in Iraq. Lt Col Ryan’s agenda is obvious, and from my point of view, admirable. The OP’s agenda appears to be political wishful thinking. There’s a big difference between the two. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/40 "2005-01-19T19:23:31Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I agree with the heartwarming sentiments of LTC Ryan and wish to discuss this extremely well written column with any of you who share his thoughts or disagree with him. Okay, I’ll put my two cents in. After reading this article, I confess I was quite disturbed rather than heart warmed. LTC Ryan certainly has a point that the media may not help his cause, and they might be somewhat biased. But free press does tend to focus mainly on the issues concerning the people at home. American soldiers killed is one such topic. A new sewer would hardly interest Joe Blow in Amarillo, Texas. So let’s take a look at the article itself and allow me to explain why I find it disturbing. > [@LTC Ryan](#): > > As a recent example, the operation in Fallujah delivered an absolutely devastating blow to the insurgency. Though much smaller in scope, clearing Fallujah of insurgents arguably could equate to the Allies’ breakout from the hedgerows in France during World War II. In both cases, our troops overcame a well-prepared and solidly entrenched enemy and began what could be the latter’s last stand. LTC Ryan brings up WWII quite frequently. It’s one thing to compare individual battles, but he is implying that the Iraq War is as justified as WWII. The wars and the events leading up to the wars were completely different. For one, America entered WWII only after having been attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. In addition, Japan and Germany were clearly the aggressors in WWII, the invaders of a number of countries. In the Iraq war, America is the invader. Whether Saddam was a tyrant or not is beside the point. America invading a country is aggression. If, however, Iraq had invaded a neighbor, a counter attack would be more acceptable and a war may have been justified. Like what happened in the First Gulf War. > [@LTC Ryan](#): > > From where I sit in Iraq, things are not all bad right now. In fact, they are going quite well. We are not under attack by the enemy; on the contrary, we are taking the fight to him daily and have him on the ropes. In the distance, I can hear the repeated impacts of heavy artillery and five-hundred-pound bombs hitting their targets. The occasional tank main gun report and the staccato rhythm of a Marine Corps LAV or Army Bradley Fighting Vehicle’s 25-millimeter cannon provide the bass line for a symphony of destruction. As elements from all four services complete the absolute annihilation of the insurgent forces remaining in Fallujah, the area around the former insurgent stronghold is more peaceful than it has been for more than a year. If a bigger stronger nation decided to invade my country to bring me “democracy” or something else I have never experienced, I could possibly react the same way. Even if the tyrant who was ruling me had been removed. It really brings up the third part of the story we don’t hear about. What made these insurgents? I can’t believe all these “terrorist” were imported by the Al Qaeda. What exactly pissed them off enough to start an insurgency? The whole thing reminds me of the Israeli occupation of Palestine. There must have been something that triggered the event. On the second part of this, I find it ironic that he mentions cannons blasting away and how they have killed so many insurgents and then later says how peaceful it now is in Fallujah. Peaceful? Could it possibly be because the inhabitants were all dead? As for the next item I wish to comment on and which I find the most distressing. > [@LTC Ryan](#): > > Every headline they grab is a victory for them. Those who have read the ancient Chinese military theorist and army general Sun Tzu will recall the philosophy of “Kill one, scare ten thousand” as the basic theory behind the strategy of terrorism. Okay, I got that, Sun Tzu was of course correct here and was referring to public executions in order to bring control the people under the emperor’s tyrannical rule. The “terrorists” seem to have picked up on this. But then: > [@LTC Ryan](#): > > How much have these “experts” studied warfare and counter-insurgencies in particular? Have they ever read Roger Trinquier’s treatise Modern Warfare: A French View on Counter-insurgency (1956)? He is one of the few French military guys who got it right. The Algerian insurgency of the 1950s and the Iraq insurgency have many similarities. What about Napoleon’s campaigns in Sardinia in 1805-07? Again, there are a lot of similarities to this campaign. Have they studied that and contrasted the strategies? Or, have they even read Mao Zedung’s theories on insurgencies, or Nygen Giap’s, or maybe Che’ Gueverra’s? Have they seen any of Sun Tzu’s work lately? I’m confused, it sounds like he has studied these guys and wishes to use the same tactics in Iraq “One of the few French military guys who got it right?” The French colonial war in Algeria? Okay I see how it seems similar, the French were the invaders in Algeria and lost. Napoleon’s campaign in Sardinia? Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Napoleon a bit of a megalomaniac? So he wants to compare Napoleon’s invasion of Sardinia to the America’s invasion of Iraq? Mao Zedung’s theories? How many people died of starvation under Mao’s regime? Is a brutal dictator someone to look to to learn how to win in Iraq? Nygen Giap? The North Vietnamese general? Didn’t America loose that war? Che Gueverra? I thought he was an insurgent. Then finally Sun Tzu once again. The general who won and concurred many lands for the emperor of China. With the possible exception of Che Gueverra, he wants to compare America’s invasion of Iraq with tyrants, generals and conquerors. What is wrong with this picture? And then we have this: > [@LTC Ryan](#): > > Study of examples of similar socio-economic changes that took place in countries like Chile, Bulgaria, Serbia, Russia and other countries with oppressive Socialist dictatorships shows that it took seven to ten years to move those countries to where they are now. There are many lessons to be learned from these transformations, the most important of which is that change doesn’t come easily, even without an insurgency going on. Similar socio-economic changes? The Iraq war was an invasion, followed by political change forced upon a people not quite ready for it. Every country he lists had change come about from the inside. The Chileans, the Bulgars, the Serbs, the Russians, all wanted change, and they changed it from the inside. It was not changed by invading forces. Anyway, LTC Ryan does seem to have some talent in his profession. Wouldn’t it be great if we could have him in Afghanistan looking for Osama Bin Ladin and fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda? Or did we forget who Osama is? Interesting that we hear so little about what’s happening on that front. Perhaps there is not enough news on Afghanistan because there are so few coalition soldiers being killed, but of course the death of American troops in Iraq does overshadow the failure to capture or kill the man responsible for the worst terrorist attack in recent history. Wonder why that is? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525.md?page=3)