# The Insurgents are spinning the war with the help of our media! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525 "2005-01-19T13:26:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/81 "2005-01-20T18:28:36Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > How can we possibley know that? When has this ever happened? > You really think that people buy the daily news to read depressing stories? > If the public really wanted depressing sensationalism, then why do most movies, books, etc, all have happy endings? > OR, is that just what the norm is and we expect to see it splashed across the front page everytime we grab a newspaper? > And, if it’s the bad depressing news that sells, then maybe we should be asking, why? I’m astonished by this comment. Where have you been the past century? William Randolph Hearst cheerled a war to sell papers. Local news didn’t get that way by accident - in each market, the show that had the most trauma won in the ratings. Yes, people appear to love to read depressing stories - as long as they happen to other people. Look at the Scott Peterson circus for Og’s sake. A Ryan style radio broadcast: Honolulu, Hawaii, December 7, 1941. The surfing here today was excellent, with lots of happy people enjoying the sun and waves this Sunday morning, their concentration only slightly disturbed by the sound of explosions and smoke coming from the harbor… ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/82 "2005-01-20T18:31:04Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > We’re pushing them into a corner and they will do anything to survive. R\*i-i-i-i-\*ght. Tell me more about this “corner”. Seems to me the bedlam is spreading when it’s not even safe to go from the airport to the “Green Zone”, which is itself the target of mortar fire and bombs. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/83 "2005-01-20T18:39:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Um, we aren’t being fought against in areas we aren’t even _in_, **Brutus**. Right. No cite? You made specific claims, and don’t seem to be able to back them up. Simple logic would tell you that you are wrong; Your noble freedom-fighters are targetting Iraqi police forces, which are all over the country. Not to mention, I am unaware of any parts of Iraq that we have literally ‘abandonded’. So put up. Where is Iraq ‘more peaceful’ and under the control of the ‘insurgents’? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/84 "2005-01-20T18:58:33Z")
Please try to figure out what your question is clearly enough to state it coherently. If your understanding of the situation on the ground is on this level, though: > [@](#): > > I am unaware of any parts of Iraq that we have literally ‘abandonded’ I don’t hold out much hope. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/85 "2005-01-20T19:11:24Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > R\*i-i-i-i-\*ght. Tell me more about this “corner”. Seems to me the bedlam is spreading when it’s not even safe to go from the airport to the “Green Zone”, which is itself the target of mortar fire and bombs. Metaphorical corner. I don’t actually think that the insurgnents are holed up in the corner of some Mosque somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/86 "2005-01-20T19:14:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Please try to figure out what your question is clearly enough to state it coherently. If your understanding of the situation on the ground is on this level, though:I don’t hold out much hope. Rightey-ho then! I’ll pop in from time to time to see if you come up with a cite, but I won’t be holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/87 "2005-01-20T19:19:18Z")
Firstly just let me remind people that the US military have used the news sources in order to manipulate events in Iraq. Fallujah being the latest… where false news of an impending invasion of the city were used to determine how the insurgents acted. So even if the media is being used to “make” the US look bad… its obvious that both sides are doing it. Now… we should go to the core of what the OP is saying… and its not only the lack of positive news. (Bad News does sell more btw) But the idea that if the news weren’t so bad… that things would be different on the ground. He isn’t complaining about unfair treatment by the media… he is defending the idea that the media are helping give impulse to the insurgency. That’s worse than censorship… its blame game. The same thing we sometimes hear about Vietnam… the protestors broke the will to fight, etc… ``` So Mr. Uncommon Sense... if the media just backed off for lets say a year or two... would this change things in Iraq ? Do you really think that the only reason for the insurgency is a need to get headlines in the morning papers ? Naturally these affect political willingness... but its hardly a primary target. If they reported much more good news... would this help "sucess" in Iraq ? Would Iraqis be more submissive if they don't see bad news ? ``` ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/88 "2005-01-20T19:28:33Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Pardon? In the article the guy is complaining that reporters are only viewing a small portion of the whole picture and they don’t have knowledge of nation building (he also goes off on a reading list—if figure war correspondents can probably read). So if he only commanding a small portion of the total campaign and if he doesn’t have experience in nation building, then it would seem that he is just as uninformed as those he is criticizing. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/89 "2005-01-20T19:35:28Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > ``` > So Mr. Uncommon Sense... if the media just backed off for lets say a year or two... would this change things in Iraq ? Do you really think that the only reason for the insurgency is a need to get headlines in the morning papers ? Naturally these affect political willingness... but its hardly a primary target. If they reported much more good news... would this help "sucess" in Iraq ? Would Iraqis be more submissive if they don't see bad news ? > > ``` I guess we’ll never know but- Probably not…so far as I can tell only two people on the planet would care. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/90 "2005-01-20T19:40:06Z")
I have a simple question. Ok LTC Ryan is a Lt. Col. Isn’t that a Major’s symbol on his collar in the photo? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/91 "2005-01-20T20:02:22Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I have a simple question. > > Ok LTC Ryan is a Lt. Col. > > Isn’t that a Major’s symbol on his collar in the photo? [No.](http://www.1starmy.com/viewproduct.asp?Productno=1884) [This is a Majors insignia](http://www.1starmy.com/viewproduct.asp?Productno=1883), same thing but a different color. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/92 "2005-01-20T20:04:19Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Um … What were the poll data on support of the war before it happened? Remember who is being sworn in again today? What percentage of Bush voters believe that there is a link between 9-11 and Saddam? Not only are far too many Americans sheep who are easily led, Bush and Company seem to count on it. Willful blindness is another animal all together. Many Bushitas are not ignorant of the facts-- they chose to ignore them, excuse them, or downplay their significance. The media certainly made it painfully obvious what kind of man they were re-electing-- unless you were on the moon under a rock, everyone knew the dastardly deeds of Bush & Co.They just didn’t _care._ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/93 "2005-01-20T20:40:44Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > Willful blindness is another animal all together. Many Bushitas are not ignorant of the facts-- they chose to ignore them, excuse them, or downplay their significance. The media certainly made it painfully obvious what kind of man they were re-electing-- unless you were on the moon under a rock, everyone knew the dastardly deeds of Bush & Co.They just didn’t _care._ The philosophy of the average Bush supporter can be summed up easily: _"He may be an asshole, but dammit, he’s_ \*\*our \*\* _asshole"_ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/94 "2005-01-20T20:42:19Z")
Hmm. I’ve more often likened their attitude to that of an abused wife saying “Well, he’s a good provider.” ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/95 "2005-01-20T21:31:56Z")
Uncommon, you should have just said you wanted to discuss the war. However, the sentance “This is not a debate about the actual events, but the way in which they are being portrayed.” is a tad misleading. Think ill go and do something else. Sin ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/96 "2005-01-20T21:36:05Z")
I see this thread has degenerated from what could have been an interesting discussion to “Liberal retards!”/“Bush is a ca-ca head!” Par for the course. What fascinates me about the topic is what it says about the role of media. Ethically speaking, I believe the media does have an obligation to report on the positive things that are being done in Iraq as well as the negative things. “If it bleeds, it leads” is not the motto of the Fourth Estate, people. It is a cynical, shameful piece of shorthand originally meant to shame the media, and it runs counter to what should be the ethical code of every worthwhile journalist. Just because it seems to be “the way it is” is no excuse. Like Jon Stewart famously said on _Crossfire_, “Stop hurting America.” Seriously. We desperately need honestly fair, unbiased reporting. Hell yes, I want to hear about the buildings that _didn’t_ burn in Iraq. Why is that more important in Iraq than in LA or New York? Because it’s an extraordinary circumstance. We’re at war. Everything that happens over there has a resounding impact on this country on a national scale. I want to hear everything, good and bad, and the western media has seriously dropped the ball on it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/97 "2005-01-20T21:42:09Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I see this thread has degenerated from what could have been an interesting discussion to “Liberal retards!”/“Bush is a ca-ca head!” Par for the course. “Liberal retards!”/“Bush is a ca-ca head!” **is** an interesting discussion, **Ogre.** Always. Why else would there always be so much interest in it in this forum? 😉 > [@Ogre](#): > > “If it bleeds, it leads” is not the motto of the Fourth Estate, people. No, but, “If a man bites a dog, it’s news; if a dog bites a man, it’s not news” **is** a motto of the Fourth Estate. It’s not news when things are ticking along just as they should. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/98 "2005-01-20T21:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > No, but, “If a man bites a dog, it’s news; if a dog bites a man, it’s not news” is a motto of the Fourth Estate. It’s not news when things are ticking along just as they should. But see, that’s what I’m saying. Everything is **not** ticking along as it should. We’re at war in Iraq, which is itself an extraordinary situation. _Everything_ that happens there is news. Hell yes I’d like to hear about school openings and new sewer lines and power restoration…just as I’d need to hear about roadside bombs and kidnappings. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/99 "2005-01-20T21:57:56Z")
Just FYI, a Lt. Col. Timothy Ryan [has previously been accused of covering up the torture of Iraqi detainees](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/12/08/coverup/print.html). Link courtesy of [Atrios](http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_01_16_atrios_archive.html#110608780806712185). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/100 "2005-01-20T22:10:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If a man bites a dog, it’s news; if a dog bites a man, it’s not news It’s also news when [Tree Bites Man](http://journals.aol.com/monponsett/HighAboveCourtside/entries/849). Basketball players Tree Rollins bit Danny Ainge once, ya see, and … Never mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525.md?page=6)