# The Insurgents are spinning the war with the help of our media! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525 "2005-01-19T13:26:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/101 "2005-01-21T04:29:28Z")
Thanks for the link, **Minty** , although that is a little bit negative. What can you expect from a man whose idea of “positive” news is the following? 1. > [@](#): > > In Fallujah, the enemy death toll has exceeded 1,500 and still is climbing. Put one in the win column for the good guys, right? 1. > [@](#): > > Did the author of this article bother to mention that Coalition troops killed 50 or so terrorists while incurring those seven losses? 1. > [@](#): > > I can hear the repeated impacts of heavy artillery and five-hundred-pound bombs hitting their targets. The occasional tank main gun report and the staccato rhythm of a Marine Corps LAV or Army Bradley Fighting Vehicle’s 25-millimeter cannon provide the bass line for **a symphony of destruction.** As elements from all four services complete the **absolute annihilation** of the insurgent forces remaining in Fallujah, the area around the former insurgent stronghold is more peaceful than it has been for more than a year. 1. > [@](#): > > …Why don’t the papers lead with “Coalition Crushes Remaining Pockets of Insurgents” or “ **Enemy Forces Resort to Suicide Bombings of Civilians** ”? This would paint a far more accurate picture of the enemy’s predicament over here. Instead, headlines focus almost exclusively on our hardships. The man is a sociopath. > [@](#): > > It’s little wonder that many people here want us out and would vote someone like Muqtada Al Sadr into office given the chance — God forbid they should have a _real_ democracy then. > [@](#): > > Almost on a daily basis, newspapers, periodicals and airwaves give us negative views about the premises for this war… Which is why earlier posts about the reasons for going to war were **not** off topic. > [@](#): > > It seems that everyone from politicians to pop stars are voicing their unqualified opinions on how things are going. We all qualify for having an opinion. I doubt that most of us expressing our opinions are saying that we’re “experts” as Ryan claims that we do. He speaks as if he is an authority on what is in every newspaper and on every news broadcast in the USA – even though he is in Iraq. Obviously his knowledge is limited and it shows, but he certainly has the right to have an opinion. > [@](#): > > This focus on the enemy’s successes strengthens his resolve and aids and abets his cause. It’s the American image abroad that suffers in the end. I don’t think for one moment that that is the origin of our problems with our image abroad. > [@](#): > > **uncommon sense** : uncomon sense: The media will bend over backwards to report that one our guys screws up but will they report when a hundred innocent civilians are beheaded by insurgents or when they use their ‘sacred’ mosques as artillery wharehouses? I do remember coverage of at least one mosque being used to store artillery in Fullujah. By the way, since it’s so peaceful there now, any ideas on why they won’t be holding elections there? > [@](#): > > **uncommon sense** : My point is; > I know what the media is presenting to the majority of my fellow Americans and I don’t agree with it. What is your source of information other than the media? And why do you trust that source or those sources more than the media. (Not that print and television news has a perfect record by _any_ means!) Do you ever check foreign sources? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/102 "2005-01-21T04:38:45Z")
Actually, I find quite the opposite, regarding this thread. American media doesn’t cover 1/10th of the shit going down in Iraq, good or bad. They certainly aren’t going out of their way to criticize the Bush Administration or anything. Major figures get popped and bombings take place and the American media doesn’t say a peep. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/103 "2005-01-21T04:43:47Z")
One thing that was interesting in the link that **Minty** provided was this line: > [@](#): > > Ryan did not respond to interview requests for this story. Gee. He can’t say he didn’t have the chance to tell the positive side. I also think it’s interesting that the psychiatrist found him creepy. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/104 "2005-01-21T09:07:39Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I see this thread has degenerated from what could have been an interesting discussion to “Liberal retards!”/“Bush is a ca-ca head!” Par for the course. > > What fascinates me about the topic is what it says about the role of media. Ethically speaking, I believe the media does have an obligation to report on the positive things that are being done in Iraq as well as the negative things. “If it bleeds, it leads” is not the motto of the Fourth Estate, people. It is a cynical, shameful piece of shorthand originally meant to shame the media, and it runs counter to what should be the ethical code of every worthwhile journalist. Just because it seems to be “the way it is” is no excuse. > > Like Jon Stewart famously said on _Crossfire_, “Stop hurting America.” Seriously. We desperately need honestly fair, unbiased reporting. Hell yes, I want to hear about the buildings that _didn’t_ burn in Iraq. Why is that more important in Iraq than in LA or New York? Because it’s an extraordinary circumstance. We’re at war. Everything that happens over there has a resounding impact on this country on a national scale. I want to hear everything, good and bad, and the western media has seriously dropped the ball on it. How can the media report when the situation is so bad they can’t leave their hotels? How can there BE any good news when the road from Baghdad airport to the Green Zone isn’t safe to travel? What good news balances the senseless flattening of a city? The odd school being painted or an oil pipeline repaired unitl the next time it’s blown up is just pissing into a hurricane. This belief that the media is hiding the good news is just more Republican bullshitting and blame deflection. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/105 "2005-01-21T10:36:23Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Ethically speaking, I believe the media does have an obligation to report on the positive things that are being done in Iraq as well as the negative things. I’m not sure that’s what **Uncommon Sense** wants. I think the writer he quotes, and many others, want the media to report stories that confirm what they already think is the truth in Iraq. Saying what the media should do overall is well and good, but it’s difficult to balance things. On a daily basis, you try to report the most important thing that happens that day. If you go out of your way to balance things, I’m not sure you’re fulfilling any obligation and you’re coming close to a very dishonest brand of journalism. > [@](#): > > “If it bleeds, it leads” is not the motto of the Fourth Estate, people. It is a cynical, shameful piece of shorthand originally meant to shame the media, and it runs counter to what should be the ethical code of every worthwhile journalist. Just because it seems to be “the way it is” is no excuse. As true as this is, it’s also an acknowledgement of the fact that news is a business. As a journalist, I’m not sure what you think my ethical code should be, so I’d like some clarification on that. The job of a journalist is to tell the truth, but you seem to be suggesting that journalists are obligated to artificially balance their stories. I think they do much too much of that as it is, and it’s responsible for a lot of terrible and dishonest reporting. The fact is that people gravitate to things that are lurid. If “if it bleeds, it leads” didn’t draw viewers once stations started doing it, they would stop doing it. Nobody has any dedication to that style of news. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/106 "2005-01-21T12:38:23Z")
We must keep in mind that “warfare” in the 21st century is as much about media and image as it is about killing 50 gooks or sucessfully using a IED against a Hummer. What good is winning and being portrayed as the “villain” ? Or “winning” in Iraq but having it perceived as a bloodbath that luckily ended. So clearly the easy way out is blaming the media of course. “Unfortunately” the media is free to report as it wishes or is able to, and naturally renovated schools make for lousy reporting, etc… In a sense the administration has given up a wider “media” appearance and has entrenched itself. They will resort to blaming the media and keeping the true beleivers beleiving… whilst disregarding other audiences need for more bull. (part of it is a natural belief that everyone should be backing them up since "war"time is a “uniting” experience) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/107 "2005-01-21T12:56:14Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > We must keep in mind that “warfare” in the 21st century is as much about media and image as it is about killing 50 gooks or sucessfully using a IED against a Hummer. In fact it may be MORE about the image. Not that image hasn’t been part of war for as long as there’s been mass communication, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/108 "2005-01-21T13:03:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In fact it may be MORE about the image. Not that image hasn’t been part of war for as long as there’s been mass communication, but still. Though the focus has been obviously and heavily the american public… ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/109 "2005-01-21T13:16:32Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Just FYI, a Lt. Col. Timothy Ryan [has previously been accused of covering up the torture of Iraqi detainees](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/12/08/coverup/print.html). > > Link courtesy of [Atrios](http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_01_16_atrios_archive.html#110608780806712185). You might want to actually read the links. I see nothing of Ryan in the linked link. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/110 "2005-01-21T13:23:52Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > You might want to actually read the links. > I see nothing of Ryan in the linked link. Sorry if it sounded snarky, it was. But the link comes up with an article not related to LTC Ryan, - is the link stable? ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/111 "2005-01-21T13:26:03Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > What fascinates me about the topic is what it says about the role of media. Ethically speaking, I believe the media does have an obligation to report on the positive things that are being done in Iraq as well as the negative things. “If it bleeds, it leads” is not the motto of the Fourth Estate, people. It is a cynical, shameful piece of shorthand originally meant to shame the media, and it runs counter to what should be the ethical code of every worthwhile journalist. Just because it seems to be “the way it is” is no excuse. > > Like Jon Stewart famously said on _Crossfire_, “Stop hurting America.” Seriously. We desperately need honestly fair, unbiased reporting. Hell yes, I want to hear about the buildings that _didn’t_ burn in Iraq. Why is that more important in Iraq than in LA or New York? Because it’s an extraordinary circumstance. We’re at war. Everything that happens over there has a resounding impact on this country on a national scale. I want to hear everything, good and bad, and the western media has seriously dropped the ball on it. OK, now we have three people. Thanks **Ogre**. That just about sums up my personal feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/112 "2005-01-21T13:27:33Z")
You need to click on the “free day pass” top read the whole article, which is reprinted at teh second link. > [@](#): > > “Madera ordered me to lie down on a gurney that had been in the rear of the Humvee so she could strap me down. I again asked what was going on, only this time a lot more pissed off. I said that I was perfectly able to walk.” Ford said Madera insisted, telling him it was the order of “[Lt. Col. Timothy] Ryan and Artiga” that he be “bound and secured” when taken “out of country.” “I saw that I had no choice and finally said OK, anything just to get the fuck out of there,” Ford recalled. With the help of the male captain, who Ford said identified himself as a medical officer, Madera strapped him to the gurney. > > Just then, Ford claimed, Ryan, Artiga’s superior officer, pulled up in his Humvee and walked over to where Ford was lying on the gurney. “He looked down at me and said, ‘Don’t worry. We are going to get you the best treatment available.’ I was enraged at that point, and it was a good thing I was strapped down. I just stared back at Ryan with looks that I hoped could kill, but I didn’t say nothing. What was the point? He had won that round.” > > Ryan did not respond to interview requests for this story. ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/113 "2005-01-21T14:19:04Z")
Uncommon - looks like your not really into this thread anymore, but you should at least give us your take on the quotes Zoe picked out. Ooh - and then you can tell us if you still stand by this: "I agree with the heartwarming sentiments of LTC Ryan and wish to discuss this extremely well written column " Sin ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/114 "2005-01-21T16:30:25Z")
[In Good Conscience](http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/20935/) So long as we, or at least the OP, is accepting anything a soldier says at face value. > [@](#): > > His unit, the 320th Military Police Company, spent six months in the southern city of Nasiriyah, and another six months helping to run the notorious Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad. Now 23, having served his tour and been honorably discharged, Delgado is speaking out about what he witnessed. He says the prison abuse broadcast on 60 Minutes last spring was the tip of the iceberg; brutality, often racially motivated, infected the entire prison and the entire military operation in Iraq. > [@](#): > > Did you personally witness the incident in which the prisoners were shot? > > Actually, I wasn’t there. I was segregated in the motor pool when it happened, but I ended up getting photos from people who shot the prisoners – [the photos] were treated as trophies and were circulated in our company. It was not a secret; everyone knew about it. All the members of the unit were passing [photos] around, and they posted them in the command center for everyone to see. This was something they were proud of. It was a very macho thing to shoot unarmed prisoners. One guy was a local hero for the week because he’d killed X number of prisoners – one of the prisoners he had shot in the groin had taken three days to die. This was something people were laughing and joking about. This guy was strutting around after having killed these prisoners and I remember just being utterly sickened. We were soldiers, and to shoot an unarmed, caged prisoner was not something to be proud of. Abu Ghraib and all the prisoner abuse [came out of] this atmosphere of brutality. Go us. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525/115 "2005-01-21T17:26:09Z")
In the spirit of this thread, I thought I’d chime in again with some other good news that the media has missed. All of these talking points refer to [this](http://www.export.gov/iraq/pdf/state_wklyrpt_011905.pdf) State Department report, which was prepared on January 19, 2005. (It’s a PDF) 1. Page 11: MORE IRAQIS ENJOYING FREE TIME; LAYOFFS MEAN RECONSTRUCTION PROJECTS NEARLY DONE. The number of Iraqis employed in US-funded reconstruction projects dropped by nearly 13,000 last week, a 10.5 percent decline. 2. Page 15: MORE IRAQIS USING CELL PHONES: There are now 1.4 million cell phone in Iraq. Any correlation of growth in cell phone users and the use of cell phones as detonators in IEDs has GOT to be a coincidence, because that would be bad news. 3. Page 16: ELECTRICITY PRODUCTION UP: …after a nation-wide blackout on January 7. Electricity production is nearing pre-war levels, which haven’t been reached in nearly two months. Just because electricity production has dropped by 25% since summer does NOT mean that things are getting worse. It means, uh, that Iraqis are leading the way in energy efficiency, and there’s more and more Energy Star-approved items in the markets every day. That’s it. 4. Page 17: TWO IRAQI PROVINCES ARE RATED AS GREEN IN NUMBER OF HOURS OF ELECTRICITY: Al Anbar and Dahuk provinces both get more than 16 hours of power per day, nearly twice the national average of 8.5 hours of electricity per day. Qadisiyah has only four hours of power per day, but Iraqis must use the electricity they have, not the electricity they wish to have. 5. Page 20: IRAQI OIL PRODUCTION HOLDS STRONG: Iraqi oil production has been constant for the last six weeks, and those export revenues fund 88 percent of the Iraqi government’s budget. Why won’t anyone listen to the good-news story about Halliburton’s involvement in post-war Iraq? There’e a great story to tell there! 6. Page 24: AMERICANS GETTING MORE BANG FOR THEIR BUCKS FOR RECONSTRUCTION FUNDS: With all this reconstruction success, we’ve only needed to spend $2.7 billion out of $18.4 billion in funds made available in November 2003. This clearly indicates that things are so much better than we expected, that if we spent ALL of that money, we’d just be wasting it. Like Saddam did with those palaces. You don’t want us to build more palaces with golden toilets, do you? Good. I thought not. Lots of more good news in there, but unfortunately, the State Department just can’t get any of this stuff on the front page. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-insurgents-are-spinning-the-war-with-the-help-of-our-media/285525.md?page=5)