# The intellectual failure on the Right is getting in the country's way. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570 "2009-02-19T18:00:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/1 "2009-02-19T18:00:50Z")
> [@Michelle Bachman (R, Batshit)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-r-batshit/486292/55): > > You’re kidding me, right? Farenheit 911, W, the forged papers on CBS. Dan Rather was in on it. You guys got all of Hollywood **and** all three networks. > > We got Rush Limbaugh on **AM** radio, and Fox News. > > You have every celebrity hot babe in the world, every actress, and all the College chicks. You got the faculty of every College on the planet. > > We got Ann Coulter and Mickey Rourke, and the guys at the VFW. > Don’t even give me that whiny shit, your media disinformation empire spans the entire mediaverse. This is what makes me sad. Rush Limbaugh is not on your side. He’s a fool comedian, a comedian of Contempt for the Other, in fact. He’s barely even up to the level of Robin Williams for political commentary, & he’s somehow hailed as the leader of the right. Never mind the ideology, \*Bobcat fuckin’ Goldthwait \*is a better political comedian than him, let alone Jon Stewart & Al Franken. Rush is just some dick talking about how great he is & talking down everyone else. Your great leader is, in effect, just a hip-hop braggart. And he’s toxic to you. Coulter isn’t much better, & Hannity is pretty nearly a hate-monger. You’re sinking in a stew of hate talk, & it’s continuing to deform the Right in this country, further & further from the relatively personable incarnations of WFB & AuH[sub]2[/sub]O–both of whom, while occasionally arrogant snobs, at least had some human empathy & thoughtfulness. Heck, WFB actually held debates between right & left marked by civility & a commitment to debate form! I miss him. Not for nothing has much of the constituency for the Right in this country given up on their standard-bearers in the GOP, who lurch idiotically toward the ranters on talk radio. So now, the saner conservatives are in the Obama camp… intruding on the nominally leftward party. So, as a social democrat, I’m like you to… _ **Knock it off!** _ Rebuild your own side, actually be the party of history, sagacity, & education. Because right now you’ve pretty much got ignorant contempt & fear-mongering overwhelming the good parts of conservatism. Without even an attachment to the educatedness & wisdom of the ages, the present GOP régime has got to be kidding me when they invoke Burke. This is annoying enough in itself, but it’s particularly irksome when the Democratic Party can’t even be a proper party of the Left because it has to be the party of all Left, Middle, & Right-that-are-not-putzes. This only encourages extemists on the Right to denounce even the rest of the Right as “of the Enemy,” & the GOP then contracts in on itself, becoming even more extreme & hidebound, pulling the country further right until the GOP lose more ground, & then some poor fairminded fools try to find the middle between the two parties, & it’s somewhere to the right of Reagan… It’s getting so mad, I think we have to cut the GOP loose. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/2 "2009-02-19T18:59:53Z")
The capitalization of everything has turned conservative politics into a media entertainment so that clowns like Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh are the leading lights of the party. The actual elected officials have to make sure that they do nothing to attract unwanted attention from these idiots, especially Limbaugh, meaning that they have to accept every position he espouses while alone in his ditto chamber. Limbaugh isn’t responsible for making government budgets or keeping good relations with allies. He is responsible for delivering his audience share, which he does, by playing to the pre-conceived notions of that audience. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/3 "2009-02-19T21:28:33Z")
What about Dennis Miller? For the most part I agree. I tend to be conservative by SDMB standards, at least WRT economics and business. But I find it difficult to support a party that has become synonymous with fear-mongering, religeous fanatacism, intollerance and anti-intellectualism. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/4 "2009-02-19T21:31:05Z")
Poor Dennis. 9/11 drove him 'round the bend, and he hasn’t got over it yet. I wish him well, and send hopes for a speedy recovery. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/5 "2009-02-20T18:07:17Z")
There are actually some reasonably intelligent people on the right, such as Pat Buchanan and Newt Gingrich. I don’t agree with most of what they say, but they do put some thought into it, and don’t blindly toe the far-right line. But they don’t get the attention that idiots like Limbaugh and Coulter get, and I suspect they have rather less influence because of that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/6 "2009-02-20T18:21:59Z")
I’m not sure why anyone would be proud to be represented by Rush Limbaugh. At best, he should be regarded like Larry Flynt; a scumbag whose continued presence signals that free speech is alive and well. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/7 "2009-02-20T18:33:13Z")
I’d consider Rush’s work superior. When I read Hustler, I have to jerk _myself_ off… Cheer up, my dexterous friends. You’re only one major terrorist attack from being back on top. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/8 "2009-02-20T18:53:34Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’d consider Rush’s work superior. You consider it superior, I consider it erie. Can’t we split the difference and call his work ontario? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/9 "2009-02-20T18:58:00Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > There are actually some reasonably intelligent people on the right, such as Pat Buchanan and Newt Gingrich. I wouldn’t call “Warren G. Harding was a Negro!” reasonably intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/10 "2009-02-20T19:10:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I wouldn’t call “Warren G. Harding was a Negro!” reasonably intelligent. Why not? It’s quite likely that one of Harding’s ancestors was black – when it was suggested to him, he said, “One of my ancestors may have jumped the fence” – and by the rule of those days, one drop of Negro blood made you a Negro. However, Harding certainly passed for white: he couldn’t have been elected President otherwise. But I haven’t seen that attributed to Buchanan or Gingrich. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/11 "2009-02-20T19:15:01Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > You consider it superior, I consider it erie. Can’t we split the difference and call his work ontario? You’re on. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/12 "2009-02-20T19:55:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re on. - Clinks Champlain glasses \* ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/13 "2009-02-20T20:03:04Z")
You’re all michuganah. No, but seriously, the problem is not so much an intellectual failure on the right, it was an intellectual purge. Not of individuals, but of discourse (the word we eggheads use when we mean talking TO and not just AT each other). The intellectual process _itself_ became suspect, because people in power associated it with being blind to reality. But when you don’t have _some_ questioning, inquiry, and reality checking on your side, you are screwing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/14 "2009-02-21T21:55:09Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > - Clinks Champlain glasses \* Stumbles drunkenly over: Wahtta toast, whatta toast. Should be r_hic_peated. Misshh… again! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/15 "2009-02-21T22:15:27Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You’re kidding me, right? Farenheit 911, W, the forged papers on CBS. Dan Rather was in on it. You guys got all of Hollywood and all three networks. > > We got Rush Limbaugh on AM radio, and Fox News. > > You have every celebrity hot babe in the world, every actress, and all the College chicks. You got the faculty of every College on the planet. > > We got Ann Coulter and Mickey Rourke, and the guys at the VFW. > Don’t even give me that whiny shit, your media disinformation empire spans the entire mediaverse. Ooh, did he follow that with how liberals are always claiming to be victims? I love that part. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/16 "2009-02-21T22:41:22Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Why not? It’s quite likely that one of Harding’s ancestors was black – when it was suggested to him, he said, “One of my ancestors may have jumped the fence” – and by the rule of those days, one drop of Negro blood made you a Negro. From what I’ve heard, that wasn’t a serious answer, and nobody actually thought he was black. > [@Giles](#): > > But I haven’t seen that attributed to Buchanan or Gingrich. That’s because I confused Buchanan with John McLaughlin. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/17 "2009-02-21T23:01:20Z")
Pat Buchanan said on Morning Joe Friday that whites are leaving California because they’re tired of supporting deadbeats. Joe Scarborough tried to save by noting that people of all races who own businesses are leaving for that reason. Morning Joe is the trailer trash of morning TV talk shows. ---
**Author:** ![counsel\_wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/65b543/32.png) [@counsel\_wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/counsel_wolf)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/18 "2009-02-21T23:13:44Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > No, but seriously, the problem is not so much an intellectual failure on the right, it was an intellectual purge. Not of individuals, but of discourse (the word we eggheads use when we mean talking TO and not just AT each other). The intellectual process _itself_ became suspect, because people in power associated it with being blind to reality. But when you don’t have _some_ questioning, inquiry, and reality checking on your side, you are screwing yourself. From a completely external perspective (in-so-far as it is possible to be external to American politics in these globalised times) this best captures the disquiet I feel about what I see on my television, newspapers and the internet of the political process in the states. Anti-intellectualism terrifies me because it frees people from making any connection with observable reality whatsoever, their faith in their own version of reality sustains them. Given that reality exists and is independent of what one thinks, the attitude is an inevitable train wreck at some point. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/19 "2009-02-21T23:27:04Z")
> [@counsel\_wolf](#): > > From a completely external perspective (in-so-far as it is possible to be external to American politics in these globalised times) this best captures the disquiet I feel about what I see on my television, newspapers and the internet of the political process in the states. Anti-intellectualism terrifies me because it frees people from making any connection with observable reality whatsoever, their faith in their own version of reality sustains them. Given that reality exists and is independent of what one thinks, the attitude is an inevitable train wreck at some point. It’s even more terrifying, here on the inside. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/20 "2009-02-23T19:25:05Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > This is annoying enough in itself, but it’s particularly irksome when the Democratic Party can’t even be a proper party of the Left because it has to be the party of all Left, Middle, & Right-that-are-not-putzes. This only encourages extemists on the Right to denounce even the rest of the Right as “of the Enemy,” & the GOP then contracts in on itself, becoming even more extreme & hidebound, pulling the country further right until the GOP lose more ground, & then some poor fairminded fools try to find the middle between the two parties, & it’s somewhere to the right of Reagan… What makes you think the people you’re ranting at have the least little problem with that outcome? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570.md?page=2)