# The intellectual failure on the Right is getting in the country's way. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570 "2009-02-19T18:00:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/41 "2009-02-24T00:57:53Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Are you serious? I think he is. As I mentioned in the “Posters who get a lot of flack” thread, **Scylla** has apparently gone insane recently, and is uncritically swallowing everything Limbaugh and O’Reilly spew out. Either that, or this is one massive whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/42 "2009-02-24T01:03:02Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Are you serious? Does the Pope shit in the Woods? Is a bear Catholic? I’ll say this much: Fool me once, shame on you. But, fool me twice… Strike three. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/43 "2009-02-24T01:04:37Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I think he is. As I mentioned in the “Posters who get a lot of flack” thread, **Scylla** has apparently gone insane recently, and is uncritically swallowing everything Limbaugh and O’Reilly spew out. Either that, or this is one massive whoosh. I certainly hope he isn’t serious, because when Bush took office the Dow was at about 10,600, when he left it was a little more than 8,000. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/44 "2009-02-24T01:13:01Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I think he is. Some people think **The Old Man and the Sea** is about a fish. > [@](#): > > As I mentioned in the “Posters who get a lot of flack” thread, **Scylla** has apparently gone insane recently, and is uncritically swallowing everything Limbaugh and O’Reilly spew out. Either that, or this is one massive whoosh. As I said in that thread, I find the hubris and the provincial unimaginary mindset which is unable to comprehend dissenting opinions without considering them “crazy” boggling to me. I cannot imagine such a limited existence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/45 "2009-02-24T02:49:14Z")
Yes, no doubt, a man of your calm detachment and commitment to reason would find such unreasonable stubbornness vexing. But I wonder: can your imagination conceive of the possibility that most of what you’ve supported over these last years here has been better than 90% wrong? And that is a generous assessment. Liberal, if you will. We were right, you were wrong. For the reasonable man you insist that you are, this would lead to a re-evaluation. A reassessment of the opinions you’ve scorned, and their advocates. Some growth, mayhaps, as ossified viewpoints are jettisoned. But come now, just between us girls, who are no better than we should be: you don’t seriously mean to suggest that GeeDub handed The One a peachy pie of yummy goodness, and Obama managed to fuck it all up? Have you closely examined the timelne of that proposition? ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/46 "2009-02-24T02:53:38Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > And on the right there’s Larry the Cable Guy Don’t forget Joe the Plumber, that intellectual giant. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/47 "2009-02-24T03:01:01Z")
Yeah, well, next time your toilet blows up, call an existentialist. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/48 "2009-02-24T03:08:11Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Don’t forget Joe the Plumber, that intellectual giant. Interesting misread. Thought that said “Joe the Plumber, that intellectual taint.” And I’m relatively certain that **Scylla** is bright enough not to blame the stock market free fall on the two month president…unless he bought that whole George Soros/cabal of liberal billionaires thing. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/49 "2009-02-24T03:14:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Yes, no doubt, a man of your calm detachment and commitment to reason would find such unreasonable stubbornness vexing. But I wonder: can your imagination conceive of the possibility that most of what you’ve supported over these last years here has been better than 90% wrong? And that is a generous assessment. Liberal, if you will. Sure. I can imagine the possibility. I can even imagine that you sincerely believe that it’s true. > [@](#): > > We were right, you were wrong. About what specifically? 90% is a pretty serious claim. I doubt you’ve applied the rigor to it that such a statement requires, but being of open mind, I’m willing to listen if you wish to substantiate it. > [@](#): > > For the reasonable man you insist that you are, this would lead to a re-evaluation. A reassessment of the opinions you’ve scorned, and their advocates. Some growth, mayhaps, as ossified viewpoints are jettisoned. Sure. I try to be flexible and accept new info. I can think of several examples where I’ve done just what you suggested. I was one of the first to openly admit that I was wrong about Iraq and WMDs and I chose to vote for Obama over McCain. That hardly constitutes 90%. > [@](#): > > But come now, just between us girls, who are no better than we should be: you don’t seriously mean to suggest that GeeDub handed The One a peachy pie of yummy goodness, and Obama managed to fuck it all up? Have you closely examined the timelne of that proposition? Of course not. It’s wholly facetious. I’m playing off those grand old days when quite a few liberal types here blamed Bush for the 2000 market meltdown that began before he took office, who blamed him for 9/11 and Katrina, and pretty much anything else bad that happened whether or not he had any input into its occurence. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/50 "2009-02-24T03:17:34Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Of course not. It’s wholly facetious. I’m playing off those grand old days when quite a few liberal types here blamed Bush for the 2000 market meltdown that began before he took office, who blamed him for 9/11 and Katrina, and pretty much anything else bad that happened whether or not he had any input into its occurence. Easy squeezy. Bush believes in God. God created the devil. The devil causes bad things to happen to good people and God causes bad things to happen to bad people. God and the Devil are in a vast conspiracy to cause harm to humanity aided and abetted by President Bush’s belief in them. Obama’s faith doesn’t count on account of his bein’ a muslim and all. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/51 "2009-02-24T03:22:25Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I certainly hope he isn’t serious, because when Bush took office the Dow was at about 10,600, when he left it was a little more than 8,000. To be more specific, the Dow Jones closed at 10,587.59 on January 19th, 2001, and at 7,949.09 on January 20th, 2009. Damn Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/52 "2009-02-24T03:24:19Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > who blamed him for 9/11 and Katrina, and pretty much anything else bad that happened whether or not he had any input into its occurence. Yeah, the federal government has no authority over national security or disaster management. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/53 "2009-02-24T03:44:34Z")
**Scylla’s** post in the OP was clearly half-joking. Upon reading many of his posts, it does not appear that he is the slack-jawed yokel the OP would have you believe. YMMV. And for the record, this is the _exact_ kind of sniping politically speaking that keeps this country in two-party trench warfare mode. Otherwise sound politicians will meme their party line, despite whether or not they have grievances with a particular bit of law or spending project. This is what is wrong with America today within our political structure, a division (that’s been plain for the eye to see for some time now) that Obama readily identified and pledged to work against, which is why I voted for him although I generally align myself with conservative values, meaning, small government, strict spending oversight, enforced immigration laws, lower taxes, strong military… …and that’s where I part ways with the Pubs. I want legal abortion, stem cell research, healthcare for all Americans, recognition of gay marriage, etc. I guess I should run for office on a multi-platform issue base, be vilified and ostracized by both parties for my Benedict Arnold ways and win the governership of either California or Minnesota. It could happen. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/54 "2009-02-24T03:57:13Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > …I was one of the first to openly admit that I was wrong about Iraq and WMDs.. Aw goldurn contrary! You were as stubborn as a petrified mule. You fought tooth and nail, retreating from frontier to fortress to bunker. Dragged, kicking and screaming, leaving long fingernail ruts gouged into the linoleum! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/55 "2009-02-24T04:11:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Aw goldurn contrary! You were as stubborn as a petrified mule. You fought tooth and nail, retreating from frontier to fortress to bunker. Dragged, kicking and screaming, leaving long fingernail ruts gouged into the linoleum! I hate this. There is NO WAY to know for sure that the admin fabricated a war against Saddam Hussein under the WMD pretext. How can you know something is there in a vast country based on some satellite photos, ground-based intel and experienced weapons inspectors unless you actually reveal what the Man Behind The Curtain has with the US Infantry? You can’t, that’s why! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/56 "2009-02-24T04:38:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Aw goldurn contrary! You were as stubborn as a petrified mule. You fought tooth and nail, retreating from frontier to fortress to bunker. Dragged, kicking and screaming, leaving long fingernail ruts gouged into the linoleum! You have quite the revisionist squint. You’ll recall I stated that I wanted to wait for the report on the WMDs. When it came out, **I** opened a thread on the subject in GD. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/57 "2009-02-24T07:41:22Z")
Well, by thunder you just stick with it! There are plenty of timid minds bound to leaden fact, unwilling to soar like eagles on the wngs of denial. ---
**Author:** ![Jaglavak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jaglavak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaglavak)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/58 "2009-02-24T09:10:14Z")
Man, you guys are sucking up the circus sideshow hook line & sinker. Let’s step back and look at the whole fustercluck from another angle, shall we? Let’s cut through the bullshit and follow the money. The government’s own [published projections](http://www.foia.cia.gov/2020/2020.pdf) forecast a massive and continued flow of wealth from West to East for the next decade at least, hitting the middle class the hardest. The bottom line is, now the middle class is competing for their jobs against trifty and industrious Chinese and Indians. High tech industries are saving their asses, but that’s a moving target because the Chinese and Indians are also annoyingly smart. OK, let’s say me & you are the ruling population and we want to stay that way. What do we do? Being as how we control the money supply, we want to have a nice big bubble wherein we abuse the sterling reputation of the nation to borrow shitwads of cash from the rest of the world. We want to have a good excuse to borrow, and then we invest in companies that will profit. Say, a brisk war, yeah that’s the ticket. Then we want to have a nice big crash wherein we print trainloads of money for a “bailout”. The bailout doesn’t do squat for economic recovery but is handy for purchasing loyalty and popularity. However the main purpose is to provide an excuse to double or triple the money supply in a way that our trading partners can’t reasonably protest. Finally we pay off in massively devalued dollars, having horked the entire world and our own foolish masses. This would tend to leave the country in a weakened condition but we don’t really care. Because looking further out, an unstoppable wave of astoundingly cheap and capable automation will likely make most non technical jobs obsolete by mid century. As long as our edge in high tech is maintained we are actually in pretty good shape. And we might have actually done the nation a favor by effectively driving out blue collar jobs via asymmetric trade barriers and tax subsidies for companies that export jobs. But if all that doesn’t work out, hey at least we’re rich. And not to worry because it seems to be working just fine. So be a good chap and pass the bubbly, won’t you? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/59 "2009-02-24T15:15:23Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > As I said in that thread, I find the hubris and the provincial unimaginary mindset which is unable to comprehend dissenting opinions without considering them “crazy” boggling to me. I cannot imagine such a limited existence. No doubt. No doubt fish have no word for water. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570/60 "2009-02-24T17:40:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No doubt. No doubt fish have no word for water. And Eskimos have no words for snow. Right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-intellectual-failure-on-the-right-is-getting-in-the-countrys-way/486570.md?page=4)