# The invention of snowmen
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 5, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830 "2018-09-05T20:29:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/1 "2018-09-05T20:29:12Z")
So, what do we know about the inventions of snowmen? Have more than one known culture in climates involving snow independently developed a game/ritual/behavior of building “men” from snow? Any trace of records of snowman production in–for example–the pre-Columbian Americas, or ancient Hokkaido, or any other area where it would have been independently invented without influence from Europeans?
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### Author:  [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/2 "2018-09-05T21:01:18Z")
The fossil record is slight.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/3 "2018-09-05T21:20:26Z")
There is a book mentioned in the Wiki page on snowmen, [_The History Of The Snowman_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowman#History) by Bob Eckstein, that says there are depictions of a snowman in the margins of the pages of a 1380 “book of hours”.
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### Author:  [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)
#### Post date: [September 5, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/4 "2018-09-05T22:45:16Z")
At the Bronx zoo, the African male lion enjoys snow. He builds it into a pillar with his paws, and then, when its high enough, he swipes it with his paw, devastating it.
That’s not a snowman. But the African lion wasn’t taught to use snow in his natural environment, and unlikely has a snowman building instinct. Nonetheless he has an application for the snow pillar, and he builds one.
I think its a fair conjecture that humans building snowmen goes back into prehistory. Why wouldn’t we? We’re not as sharp as an African lion?
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/5 "2018-09-06T20:04:42Z")
[Winter’s Effigies: The Deviant History of the Snowman](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/winters-effigies-the-deviant-history-of-the-snowman)
Mostly based on the book **Czarcasm** mentioned.
As for historical snowman-building outside the range of European influence, it seems very plausible: human beings in all cultures have always made models of human figures in whatever materials came to hand, so why would snow be an exception? [This article says:](https://blogs.loc.gov/folklife/2014/12/snowballs-to-sculptures/)
> [@](#):
>
> The traditional three-ball snow person found in Europe and North America is not universal. In Japan, snow people are usually made using one large ball and one small one. The snow people are called yukidaruma or “snow Daruma.” “Daruma” refers to a Zen monk, the legendary founder of Zen, Bodhidharma. Daruma figurines are used as devotional objects for those aspiring to reach a goal.
Another [article also based on the above book](https://www.fatherly.com/play/snowman-history/) claims:
> [@](#):
>
> In China, going back to the 7th-century, Buddha statues are carved out of snow for families to worship in place of marble or wood.
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### Author:  [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/6 "2018-09-06T20:09:36Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#):
>
> The fossil record is slight.
To be fair, we’ve not explored a lot of Antarctica. I bet there are loads of snowman fossils down there.
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### Author:  [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/7 "2018-09-06T20:17:19Z")
It it my understanding that snowman fossils consist largely of desiccated carrots, lumps of coal, and possibly stovepipe hat fibers.
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### Author:  [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/8 "2018-09-06T21:17:10Z")
Yeah, I guess carbon dating is just useless.
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### Author:  [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/9 "2018-09-06T23:46:51Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#):
>
> Yeah, I guess carbon dating is just useless.
Might work on the eyes…
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/10 "2018-09-07T00:17:28Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#):
>
> The fossil record is slight.
Abominably so.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/11 "2018-09-07T01:48:38Z")
[_flounces off to sit with **Czarcasm** and **Arkcon** and complain about the kids who think it’s so much cooler to be the class clown than to actually do the homework_]
😛
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/12 "2018-09-07T10:25:08Z")
> [@Arkcon](#):
>
> But the African lion wasn’t taught to use snow in his natural environment
Are you under the [mistaken impression](https://www.traveller24.com/Explore/Bush/pics-lions-and-giraffes-frolic-in-first-snowfall-at-aquila-game-reserve-in-10-years-20180703) it never snows in Africa?
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/13 "2018-09-07T10:27:59Z")
> [@Patch](#):
>
> To be fair, we’ve not explored a lot of Antarctica. I bet there are loads of snowman fossils down there.
Well…snowt_hing_ fossils, at any rate.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/14 "2018-09-07T10:29:19Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Well…snowthing fossils, at any rate.
But how could you tell?
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/15 "2018-09-07T10:29:39Z")
Must admit, it’s a little saddening that our earliest visual depiction of a snowman is some sort of anti-Semitic attack.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/16 "2018-09-07T10:30:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> But how could you tell?
By how eldritch they look?
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/17 "2018-09-07T11:10:45Z")
> [@Kimstu's cite](#):
>
> The traditional three-ball snow person found in Europe and North America is not universal. In Japan, snow people are usually made using one large ball and one small one.
So, uh, guys? Apparently us in Spain are Africa after all, or maybe Japan.
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/18 "2018-09-07T15:30:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> [This article says:](https://blogs.loc.gov/folklife/2014/12/snowballs-to-sculptures/)
> The traditional three-ball snow person found in Europe and North America is not universal. In Japan, snow people are usually made using one large ball and one small one.
Three-ball? Snowman only have [two balls](https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-snowman-in-field-of-sunlit-snow-in-cumbria-uk-with-long-winter-shadow-53304558.html) round here (UK).
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### Author:  [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reindeer_Flotilla)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/19 "2018-09-07T19:30:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> Are you under the [mistaken impression](https://www.traveller24.com/Explore/Bush/pics-lions-and-giraffes-frolic-in-first-snowfall-at-aquila-game-reserve-in-10-years-20180703) it never snows in Africa?
It’s going to take a lot to drag me away from this discussion.
I’m wondering if the first snowman came before or after the first snow dwelling/igloo/fort. And also if the first snowman was for fun, or a utility use for markers or protection as in a scare[del]crow[/del]human for example. It’s probably difficult to get a precise answer considering the diversity of cultures, etc. where snow falls on the globe. I’d speculate that snowmen sprang up independently all over the world at different times for different reasons.
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-invention-of-snowmen/820830/20 "2018-09-07T20:02:48Z")
Mais où sont les neiges d’antan ??
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