# The Irish-green connection
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 11, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771 "2000-03-11T19:08:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2000, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/1 "2000-03-12T06:02:00Z")
Here’s a seasonal question for y’all, with the St. Patrick’s holiday coming up …
What’s the dope on the connection between the Irish and the color green?
Other countries have grass and shamrocks, too.
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“You should tell the truth, expose the lies and live in the moment.” - Bill Hicks
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### Author:  [@Ursa\_Major](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ursa_Major)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2000, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/2 "2000-03-12T06:09:00Z")
Ireland is the “Emerald Isle”, remember?
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### Author:  [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2000, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/3 "2000-03-12T06:28:00Z")
And how about a WAG?
The Irish tri-color is green, white & orange.
Which color you represent determines which side plants a bomb under your car.
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### Author:  [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2000, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/4 "2000-03-12T06:41:00Z")
Yes Ursa, Ireland is known as the Emerald Isle. Yes, Doug, they have green in their flag.
Again I ask, why the strong affinity/connection with the color?
Ireland is no more green than Wisconsin.
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“You should tell the truth, expose the lies and live in the moment.” - Bill Hicks
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### Author:  [@Ursa\_Major](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ursa_Major)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2000, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/5 "2000-03-12T06:58:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Ireland is no more green than Wisconsin.
I beg to differ. Have you been to Ireland? I have. And I’ve been to Wisconsin, as well. There is no way you can describe a first impression of Ireland without using the word “green”. The “lushness” of Wisconsin is no match.
There is no way I can quantify “how green” Ireland or any other place is, All I can say is that it is the “greenest” place I’ve ever seen.
You have to remember that grass is pretty much all they grow in Ireland. I’ve driven all over that island at various times of the year and I can’t recall ever seeing any crops. All the land there is pretty much given over to meadow fed livestock.
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### Author:  [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/6 "2000-03-11T19:08:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by Ursa Major:
> \*\* I’ve driven all over that island at various times of the year and I can’t recall ever seeing any crops. \*\*
Yep…the potatoes grow _underground._
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### Author:  [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/7 "2000-03-11T19:14:00Z")
And the British stole all the trees that could be used for firewood.
But that’s a rant for another time.
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### Author:  [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2000, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/8 "2000-03-11T23:19:00Z")
Would you have rathered we use a defoliant? 🙂
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### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2000, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/9 "2000-03-12T15:05:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The Irish tri-color is green, white & orange. Which color you represent determines which side plants a bomb under your car.
In Northern Ireland, if you represent green, a protestant will bomb you. If orange, a catholic will bomb you. If white, they’re both out to get you.
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–It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.
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### Author:  [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2000, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/10 "2000-03-13T08:58:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by Doug Bowe:
> **And the British stole all the trees that could be used for firewood.
> But that’s a rant for another time.**
Well, the british basically de-forested their homeland as well, i hear.
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I myself am an incorrigible conlang slut. I love oral lex.
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### Author:  [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2000, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/11 "2000-03-14T21:15:00Z")
The orange and green are traditional colors of the Protestants and Catholics, respectively. 'S why those Unionist bigots call themselves the Orange Order. I’m assuming the white of the flag is supposed to symbolize a field of truce and/or harmony between the two, but as long as the UK keeps an active presence in Ulster that ain’t gonna happen.
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Cave Diem! Carpe Canem!
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### Author:  [@sharkboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sharkboy)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2000, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/12 "2000-03-14T22:19:00Z")
I have been to Ireland, fishing, many times, and the one constant is the colour I go when I’m on the boat the day after a good night in the company of the Irish. Oh, and EVERY night is a good night in my experience.
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### Author:  [@Occam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Occam)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2000, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/13 "2000-03-15T01:07:00Z")
In the fall Ireland is green, in the Winter Ireland is green, in the spring Ireland is green, even in the summer Ireland is still green. And it’s green from coast to coast, on every rock and on every sidewalk. Damn, if I spaced this out it could be a bad prose poem.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2000, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/14 "2000-03-15T04:17:00Z")
There are two convergent traditions linking Ireland and green.
One is the phrase _Emerald Isle_, the earliest citation of which is the poem _Erin_ by Dr, E. J. Drennan, (1795):
> [@](#):
>
> Nor one feeling of vengeance presume to defile
> The cause, or the men, of the Emerald Isle.
The second tradition is the use of green in the various flags used by groups opposing British rule throughout the nineteenth century. The first was “The Green Flag,” a flag designed in the 1790’s that used the gold harp (from the traditional Irish arms) on a green field instead of the traditional Irish blue field. (My _guess_ would be that the blue field may have come to be associated with the “official” arms that were sanctioned by London and a separate color was chosen.) The whole history of green flags is clouded with legend and false attributions. There was supposed to have been a “green ensign” for maritime use dating back to the late seventeenth or early eighteenth century. Unfortunately, there would have been no Irish Navy at that time and it is extremely unlikely that the British Navy would have tolerated additional ensigns (from problematic colonies) floating over their ships. “Sightings” of such ensigns in old books pop up from time to time, but the flags represented in those books are usually speculative in nature and cannot be historically proved.
## One tale that I have seen regarding the green color was that it was originally the misbegotten offspring of an attempt to simply mix the dyes of the traditional Irish blue and the Orange from the House of Orange. (There was at least one independence movement that sought to rally both the native Irish and the transplanted Plantation immigrants against Britain, but it failed.) That green was supposed to have been a rather muddy color that was later spruced up with the verdant green with which we are now familiar. Unfortunately, I have never found a good citation for this claim and present it only in the hopes that someone can finally debunk it.
Tom~
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [March 18, 2000, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irish-green-connection/8771/15 "2000-03-18T17:45:00Z")
The things we find when we aren’t looking for them:
I was paging through Brewer’s this morning looking for something else and noticed an entry for _Tricolour_. The entry did not mention the Irish Republican flag (Brewer’s dates to 1894) but it did mention that the original flag of the French Republican revolutionaries was green, being replaced by the white, red, and blue tricolor, later. Since the French were very involved in the Irish insurrection of 1798, I am now wondering if there is a connection between the original revolutionary flag and the green Harp Flag.
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Tom~