# The Irishman SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** netflix, movies\ **Created:** [November 21, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750 "2019-11-21T02:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/21 "2019-12-03T19:58:40Z")
The only thing this had in common with Goodfellas and Casino is that it confirms my belief that Joe Pesci is the only actor alive who can steal a scene from Robert De Nero. Other than that the only clever thing about this film is it’s euphemism for shooting people in the head. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/22 "2019-12-03T20:04:56Z")
Pretty neat apparent extended take to start the film off. Probably the highpoint… 😉 The guy in the office next to me is a HUGE fan of mob literature and film. He LOVED this film. And then proceeded to tell me all about Sheeran’s book, and many others, while discussing the various theories re: Hoffa’s disappearance… ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/23 "2019-12-03T22:20:40Z")
Someone sent me this , the woman disagrees with most critics. And yes I know this is the Murdoch owned NY Post. [Martin Scorsese's 'The Irishman' is terrible](https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/go-ahead-and-admit-it-the-irishman-is-terrible/) ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/24 "2019-12-03T23:19:37Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Someone sent me this , the woman disagrees with most critics. And yes I know this is the Murdoch owned NY Post. > > [Martin Scorsese's 'The Irishman' is terrible](https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/go-ahead-and-admit-it-the-irishman-is-terrible/) Some of her arguments are bizarre. She complains that some of the source material, like Kennedy being assassinated by the mob and Hoffa’s murder at the hand of his friend, as being treated without skepticism. That’s a fair criticism for a documentary. But, in a movie, what were they supposed to do? Show a scene, but have a disclaimer at the bottom stating that this might not have happened like this? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/25 "2019-12-03T23:43:04Z")
one of the rumors about Hoffa’s body was that it was buried in the endzone of the old Giants stadium. I think the FBI even looked into that. My uncle did the grading and paving for the stadium. He was Italian but not connected to the mob. I did not hear that rumor until after my uncle died, maybe I would have asked him about it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/26 "2019-12-03T23:50:45Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > The whole movie screamed, “It’s time to let younger actors step up and do their thing.” Goodfellas was Ray Liotta and Joe Pesci energy. Wife and girlfriend energy were strong, too, to bring something else to the movie depicting the life of some men. > > Now, with The Irishman, we cling to scraps, with old guys who are too old to bring energy to the movie… I am on recoprd to say I think The Irishman was a mediocre movie, but Joe Pesci was great. DeNiro was badly miscast and Pacino was bad, but don’t lump Pesci in there. His performance was outstanding. With the former two, I never thought I was looking at Frank Sheeran or Jimmy Hoffa; I was watching Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino act like they do. With Joe Pesci, I never once thought “it’s Joe Pesci doing Joe Pesci stuff.” I felt like I was watching a man named Russell Bufalino. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/27 "2019-12-04T10:08:07Z")
I’m not gonna slag the acting of De Niro or Pacino because they can both act, but oh my god the CGI de-aging so didn’t work. People have mentioned, they still moved like old men and mostly looked like old men. At no point did De Niro look anything less than 50 years old, and there were times when he should have (being called “kid,” baptiziing his children). While mostly I thought the cinematography was great, there comes a time to cut. Get on the plane, get off the plane, we don’t need to see the plane take off, fly, and land, and then take off and land again. Yeah, those were really nice landings (I heard you paint runways). But, enough. There was also a long, uncomfortable, and totally redundant scene where it looked like somebody’s needle got stuck in the groove, they’ve said it, they’ve said it again, get out of this scene. Writers get told all the time, “Kill your darlings.” I think there were some darlings here that needed killing. It could have been a normal length. It could have had age-appropriate actors. I do get that oh, this is Scorcese, Pacino, De Niro, and Pesci but if it’s not entertaining, fuhgeddabout it. There are better organized crime movies. And quite frankly it’s hard for me to think of De Niro as an Irishman, let alone THE Irishman. This was made a lot harder by having to look at him. Come on guys, retire already. Let somebody from a younger generation get famous. I’m not even gonna mention the scene where I first thought Hoffa was wearing a Nixon mask. Yes, I found that distracting. Also the bad wig. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/28 "2019-12-04T13:23:49Z")
I give it a meh+. Worth seeing if you are into the subject and/or the cast/director. I might rewatch it sometime, but not for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/29 "2019-12-04T13:37:42Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But they weren’t (shown as being) there when Sheeran killed Hoffa. Seemed unnecessarily complex, to have them there, then gone, then come back to dispose of the body. I assumed they were still there, just out of sight. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/30 "2019-12-04T14:28:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I am on recoprd to say I think The Irishman was a mediocre movie, but Joe Pesci was great. DeNiro was badly miscast and Pacino was bad, but don’t lump Pesci in there. His performance was outstanding. I couldn’t agree more. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/31 "2019-12-04T22:53:01Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Seen it. Its Scorseses Godfather 3. A few notes: > > I disagree about Pacino. He was completely unbelievable as Hoffa. Hoffa was a rough tough bluecollar type. Pacino is a loudmouthed toupeed attention whore.DeNiro would have been much better and believable as Hoffa. He looks old but he still looks tough and intimidating. > > Pesci was very good and understated as a mob boss. > > DeNiro still brilliant at 75 and carried the film. > > I felt like Netflix cheaped out on the film. Gone was a music budget that helped make Goodfellas and Casino so good. There was little action. Mostly the film is conversation and exposition through conversation. > > Study the history of the period. Historical figures and events fly by and those who arent aware of the backstory could easily get lost in this 210 minute film. > > Remember that the narrator is unreliable. > > Its really not necessary to see this in a theater. As mentioned earlier, there is little action. > > Recommended but not Top Shelf Scorsese. Saw it after reading about it here. I remember the 70s Teamster deal fairly well, my dad’s company had tractors arriving back at the yard with _bullet_ holes in them [the company had its own drivers and tractors and was not unionized.] I can remember a fair amount of stuff going on from watching the 6 00 news with my dad and discussing it over dinner - and I can remember the 80s as well. I actually enjoyed it - spotting stuff that I knew from teh news and conversations, though not completely happy with the casting and CGI, it was ok though it did take me out of the story a few times. It is correct, they did always move like old men when CGI’d younger. > [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > one of the rumors about Hoffa’s body was that it was buried in the endzone of the old Giants stadium. I think the FBI even looked into that. My uncle did the grading and paving for the stadium. He was Italian but not connected to the mob. I did not hear that rumor until after my uncle died, maybe I would have asked him about it. I always thought they did something really permanent like chopping him in small enough pieces and dumping him off a boat to feed fishes, but hauling him to a crematory makes perfect sense. He could also have been chopped small enough and dumped into a sewage treatment plant - those little bugs will digest anything remotely organic [a friend who worked in sewage treatment back in the 80s suggested it] ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/32 "2019-12-05T03:34:16Z")
I loved the movie but respect and understand many of the opinions otherwise. I too can’t wrap my head around the set up to the Hoffa hit it’s explained in the book just can’t remember why they did all the car switching. Now that I think of it during the Frank Sheehan Testimonial, Tony Salerno has a bug up his ass about Hoffa because he predicted he was going to call in the Teamster loans, can anyone expand on what Salerno was afraid Hoffa was going to do (a fear that had a lot to do with why he was whacked). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/33 "2019-12-05T03:54:34Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Some of her arguments are bizarre. She complains that some of the source material, like Kennedy being assassinated by the mob and Hoffa’s murder at the hand of his friend, as being treated without skepticism. That’s a fair criticism for a documentary. But, in a movie, what were they supposed to do? Show a scene, but have a disclaimer at the bottom stating that this might not have happened like this? There’s a theory out there that Frank Sheeran was just a senile old man that was a periphery player in the underworld that weaved a colossal death-bed bubbameister. Similar things have been said about Henry Hill which Goodfellas is based on. Doesn’t mean they don’t make for entertaining movies! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/34 "2019-12-05T06:31:08Z")
While the Hoffa murder set up bit made little sense to me I did find Frank’s refusal to sit in the front knowing who would be behind him and what we know from a past scene as a bit funny. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/35 "2019-12-05T18:04:15Z")
I found it long, boring and visually off-putting. And I love Goodfellas, Casino and The Departed. Maybe Scorsese should have cast Matt Damon, Mark Wahlberg and Leonardo DeCaprio to play younger versions of these guys? I thought they made Pacino look like Ciarán Hinds, the guy who played Mance Raydar on Game of Thrones. Honestly, I couldn’t figure out why or if I should care about any of these characters. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/36 "2019-12-05T18:08:16Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I thought they made Pacino look like Ciarán Hinds, the guy who played Mance Raydar on Game of Thrones. And Julius Caesar in _Rome_. I actually thought that’s who it was when he first appeared on the screen. It took me a few minutes to realize that was Pacino (and the character was supposed to be Hoffa.) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/37 "2019-12-05T18:24:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > While the Hoffa murder set up bit made little sense to me I did find Frank’s refusal to sit in the front knowing who would be behind him and what we know from a past scene as a bit funny. In movies like this that scene usually precedes the strangulation of the guy who ended up in the front seat. That it didn’t happen is kind of confusing in itself. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/38 "2019-12-05T18:26:39Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > I did not hear that rumor until after my uncle died, maybe I would have asked him about it. Your uncle didn’t die in mysterious circumstances, did he? That might be a clue… ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/39 "2019-12-06T16:33:36Z")
Was the shooting schedule rushed? I can think of at least 4 scenes that desperately needed another take. Pesci was outstanding and pulled off old man Russ perfectly. DeNiro played the same character he always plays in these movies. Pacino characteristically overacted but succeeded nevertheless through intensity and presence. Nobody pulls off simmering rage better than Stephen Graham (though his accent was a bit much.). Why on fucking Earth did MS cast Domenick Lombardozzi as Tony Salerno? They couldn’t find a balding, fat, older Italian guy? Any bonuses MS thought he might get from Lobardozzi’s acting was offset by a longshot by the distracting ageing makeup. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750/40 "2019-12-06T16:41:53Z")
Moderator Note The above post was originally posted to the “Russian Doll” thread. Since it obviously was a comment about The Irishman, I moved it to this thread. Let me know if something else was intended. Colibri [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irishman-spoilers-spoilers-spoilers/843750.md?page=3)