# The IRS is apparently just a criminal organization **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2015, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994 "2015-11-08T04:52:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/41 "2015-11-10T18:27:42Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Sharing personal data about taxes is not something the IRS can just go doing without Congressional authorization, and for good reason. That’s not what they’d be doing. They’d simply be saying, “Hey, someone’s using your SS# for work purposes, watch your credit and if you see anything inform the authorities.” Current law already states that filing a fraudulent tax return is an aggravated felony that subjects the violator to deportation: [http://immigration.findlaw.com/deportation-removal/felony-convictions-and-immigration-status.html](http://immigration.findlaw.com/deportation-removal/felony-convictions-and-immigration-status.html) The IRS can definitely aid in identity theft cases without much effort. Taxpayer: “Hey, remember that notice you sent me about my SS# being used? Well a credit card account was opened up under that SS# and it’s not mine.” IRS forwards the info to the INS and the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/42 "2015-11-10T18:28:43Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Yeah, that’s right. In fact, it’s how they nailed Capone - income tax evasion. So if he’d reported illegal income, they couldn’t have used it against him in a court of law? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/43 "2015-11-10T18:38:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s not what they’d be doing. They’d simply be saying, “Hey, someone’s using your SS# for work purposes, watch your credit and if you see anything inform the authorities.” But (again) that’s not all you said. But never mind. The only problem I see with this that in some cases the IRS may not know which is the fraud and which is real. > [@](#): > > Current law already states that filing a fraudulent tax return is an aggravated felony that subjects the violator to deportation: > > [http://immigration.findlaw.com/deportation-removal/felony-convictions-and-immigration-status.html](http://immigration.findlaw.com/deportation-removal/felony-convictions-and-immigration-status.html) > > The IRS can definitely aid in identity theft cases without much effort. Taxpayer: “Hey, remember that notice you sent me about my SS# being used? Well a credit card account was opened up under that SS# and it’s not mine.” IRS forwards the info to the INS and the FBI. The taxpayer could just informed the FBI himself though. And should. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/44 "2015-11-10T18:40:41Z")
True. I’ll be interested in seeing what the exact legislation looks like. The IRS could be empowered to go after illegal workers, and I’m sure the funding would be forthcoming. All you need is some phone reps who call the INS whenever a SS# doesn’t match a name. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/45 "2015-11-10T18:40:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If I report to the IRS that I made $17 million last year from selling cocaine, they do nothing because drug enforcement isn’t under their purview, right? You have just signed and filed a confession of criminal activity. The IRS may not be \*required \*to inform DOJ of it, but what do you think would stop them? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/46 "2015-11-10T18:42:13Z")
Their own words. “Our job is tax collection, not law enforcement.” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/47 "2015-11-10T18:50:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > True. I’ll be interested in seeing what the exact legislation looks like. The IRS could be empowered to go after illegal workers, and I’m sure the funding would be forthcoming. All you need is some phone reps who call the INS whenever a SS# doesn’t match a name. I have no problem with Congress telling the IRS to do this stuff. I just think they can’t do it without congressional authorization. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/48 "2015-11-10T18:52:39Z")
Confess to a priest or tell a psychiatrist that you bought cocaine and they won’t tell the cops either, but that doesn’t make them criminals. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/49 "2015-11-10T18:55:13Z")
If you confess to a priest that you’re about to harm someone, they really are morally obligated to tell. Identity theft is rather harmful. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/50 "2015-11-10T19:02:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I understand what you’re saying here, and i agree that Congress needs to take action, but surely it should not require a specific act of Congress for the IRS to at least look into the situation when it becomes clear that two different people are paying taxes under a single SSN. > > And this shouldn’t be hard, because this situation doesn’t require the IRS to DO SOMETHING; it simply requires them to NOT DO SOMETHING. That is, all they have to do is look at the situation, use their judgment about what is going on, and NOT send a penalty notice to the poor schlub whose SSN is being used by someone else. > . It’s not a penalty notice, and they often dont know who the income belongs to. Generally if its a “borrowed” SSN, then it’s obvious (John Smith vs Jose Garcia) and then either the notice will be sent just to Jose, or if it’s a very small item, sometimes to both (since small items are never initially seen by a human, the computer does them). If that happens, then a simple phone call or letter to the W2 matching unit will solve it. My Bro worked for the IRS for 20 years. The only thing that can cause the sort of problems described in the article is when the “other guy” also uses the name. This is very very rare. SSN "borrowers’ use their own name, almost every time. But it’s not impossible for a borrower to have a rather similar name to the borrowee, and that’s what causes the problem, even tho very rare, as I said above. So, let us say the IRS knows the SSN 123-45-6789 is used by Jose A Garcia of Chicago, to whom the SSN was originally issued. And Jose G Garcia of San Diego. There’s a 1099 from Bobs Trucking in Phoenix for $1000 to Jose Garcia, not reported on either 1040. Do you automatically assume it’s Jose **G** Garcia? Or do you send notices to both? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/51 "2015-11-10T19:06:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The IRS can definitely aid in identity theft cases without much effort. Taxpayer: “Hey, remember that notice you sent me about my SS# being used? Well a credit card account was opened up under that SS# and it’s not mine.” IRS forwards the info to the INS and the FBI. “without much effort”= IRS agent being fired, federal Felony charges and civil liability for both the IRS and the Employee. _It’s illegal for the IRS to do that._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/52 "2015-11-10T19:08:01Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The taxpayer could just informed the FBI himself though. And should. Nope, they are prohibited from doing so by a Act of Congress. This is not the IRS- it’s Congress. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/53 "2015-11-10T19:09:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You have just signed and filed a confession of criminal activity. The IRS may not be \*required \*to inform DOJ of it, but what do you think would stop them? Federal Law. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/54 "2015-11-10T19:17:31Z")
Which one? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/55 "2015-11-10T19:27:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Which one? > **[IRS privacy policy | Internal Revenue Service](https://www.irs.gov/privacy-disclosure/irs-privacy-policy)** > > Thank you for visiting the Internal Revenue Service's website, an official United States Government System, and reviewing our privacy policy. Our privacy policy explains how we handle the personally identifiable information (PII) that you provide to... > **[Taxpayer Bill of Rights | Internal Revenue Service](https://www.irs.gov/taxpayer-bill-of-rights)** > > Each and every taxpayer has a set of fundamental rights they should be aware of when dealing with the IRS. Explore your rights and our obligations to protect them. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/56 "2015-11-10T20:06:25Z")
Neither of those does what you say. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/57 "2015-11-10T20:29:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You have just signed and filed a confession of criminal activity. The IRS may not be \*required \*to inform DOJ of it, but what do you think would stop them? It’s not like the tax return would say it was illegal activity. You’d just call yourself a wholesale distributor. Sch C even allows 999999 as an activity code - “Other” So the IRS wouldn’t know anything from the surface of the tax return to indicate an illegal activity. They’d have to audit you to determine that… and even then, their concern is not whether you’re breaking drug laws, but whether you’re breaking tax laws. In thinking about branches of government, remember that the IRS is a part of the Treasury Department. They’re not even in the Justice Department’s chain of command. (As I understand it, there are issues the IRS can refer to DOJ, but my money says your drug lord will only be caught through IRS efforts if he doesn’t file his taxes.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/58 "2015-11-10T20:49:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Neither of those does what you say. read it. IRS Privacy law generally prohibit them from information sharing with other Agencies, unless there’s a Subpoena. There are exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/59 "2015-11-11T03:12:48Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Of course, some jackass Republican will immediately jump in and declare that we need to privatize it. Because allowing some private company access to all that information, all that money and all that responsibility - with a guaranteed profit - will in no way result in any corruption, right? Tax farming has historically totally worked and never resulted in any problem whatsoever ! For the history challenged : this was actually the norm back in the day, all the way to the Roman Empire. The state auctioned tax gathering by basically saying “all right, we need 10 million dollars to Do A Thing, who can provide that ?”. The prospective volunteer would give the state the full 10 million dollars up front then be granted the exclusive right to collect taxes within a given circumscription. It was entirely up to them to recoup their losses and turn a profit. This typically involved groups of large men with baseball bats and a rather loose interpretation of the tax code & excise rates. For some reason the taxees didn’t usually enjoy that system. It’s one of the big ticket items that led to the French Revolution. And the fall of the Roman Empire. Also the Qing dynasty in China. But hey, feel free to try it [again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanborn_incident), I’m sure it’ll work out fine this time :D. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994/60 "2015-11-12T14:37:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Tax farming has historically totally worked and never resulted in any problem whatsoever ! Exactly the examples I was thinking of. Then again, we’re already doing this in parts of the USA. Just look at how the entire legal system in Ferguson is built around ‘farming’ the population for fines. Then don’t think for half a second that this isn’t a fairly common practice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-irs-is-apparently-just-a-criminal-organization/736994.md?page=2)