I acknowledge that this is likely the problem - they’re understaffed and overworked. Still the results are just as frustrating as if sheer incompetence was the reason.
I have both an estate lawyer and an accounting firm.
The problem with the T.A.S. is that I am unable to show that this has caused economic hardship for any of the heirs.
I will not distribute the rest of the estate until I am certain that there is a refund coming and not an unexpected tax bill for a ridiculously large amount. My aunt had a lot of different investments. If I distribute all the assets, which at this point have all been reduced to cash, and it turns out that the estate should have given it to the IRS then I, as Executor, would be on the hook for the entire amount that was in the estate unless the other heirs agreed to give their part back. Some of them probably would and some of them probably would not.
I represented some of my clients before the IRS but that was at least 15 years ago. Back then, once you got assigned to a particular person at the IRS and got the direct number to that person’s desk, everything was smooth sailing. But that has not happened in this case and they seem to be much more disorganized than they used to be.
I believe they were grossly understaffed by cuts to their budget, and remain understaffed and in catch-up mode.
The accountants can’t give you a reasonably close estimate if the taxes owed by the estate?
Will they let you fax it to them while you’re on the phone with them? I’ve done that at work when faxing over a Form 2848, Power of Attorney and Declaration of Representative. The person on the phone actually received it. This was about 2 or 3 years ago.
I agree, but do not get mad at the IRS.
One of these things is not like the other. Have you actually called them?
There is no one there to do that. The GOP got rid of them all.
They have given an exact amount of the refund due from the IRS. But this amount has not been confirmed by the IRS.
.Yes. I actually sent all the forms and documentation to them again that way in addition to certified mail about 6 months ago. They even acknowledged receiving them during that telephone conversation. Thanks for reminding me, I had forgotten about that.
Do they usually confirm that taxes are correct? I don’t think I’ve ever had the IRS tell me, “yup, that’s right” and I’ve heard of audits going fairly far back in time.
When my mom died, we just distributed everything and agreed to share the final costs when the estate was finalized (a year after distributing everything and filing that the estate is closed.) we paid a lawyer and an accountant, and got some money from a much-delayed auction of some costume jewelry after that. My sister and i were just looking at the spreadsheet yesterday, and at the lawyer’s bill from the final filing, to see when it will be finally closed (December) and we can all even up.
What if my accountants were wrong? My aunt’s taxes were rather complicated. What if it turns out there is a huge tax bill that consumes the entire amount in the estate? In your case it looks like you could count on everyone to do the right thing. I’m not so sure in my case.
If it’s plausible that the accountants could be so wrong that the bill consumes the entire estate, i doubt the estate is so large that it’s a significant financial burden to wait for it. If one of your siblings desperately needs $1000 now, i suggest that if you can afford it, you loan them the money with their share of the estate as collateral, and eat the loss if the estate goes away and they can’t pay you back
Yes, it’s true that i trust all my sibs to chip in to even up at the end. Mostly it’s my brother, who paid the accountant, who is trusting, i guess. But we have about $2000 split 4 ways to even up after everything is final.
The estate is not small. None of the beneficiaries are desperate for anything. But that doesn’t keep people from whining.
Also, if any of my siblings were in a bad situation financially I would just give them some money out of my own pocket,
My gf is in the exact same position as executrix of her aunt’s estate! Things are looking good finally.
My dad was always afraid of the IRS. When I was a kid I’d eavesdrop on discussions between him and our neighbor, who was his accountant.
One year my dad got a letter from the IRS saying he owed $250. He showed the letter to the accountant, who found the problem, an error by the IRS. My dad sent them the money rather than argue with them.
Well, it’s certainly annoying that they haven’t sent the refund.
We had some issues filing the second-to-last tax forms. I forget why. The accountant suggested we estimate really high to make sure we wouldn’t owe penalties. But we didn’t think the estate would owe anything, and were worried by stories that the gutted IRS was really slow and didn’t want to be fighting for a refund for a year. So we gambled and sent a good-faith estimate to both the feds and the state. The good faith estimate to the feds was zero, but we knew we’d owe money to the state.
Thankfully, the final tax return for the feds was zero, and the state department of revenue hasn’t been broken by Republican underfunding, and they gave us our refund in a timely fashion after we filed.
Anyway, i agree with DrDeth that you should be cursing the Republican Congress that gutted the IRS, and not the poor schlub you are actually interacting with. And vote for politicians who will fund the agency to a level where it can answer the phone and process returns.
I would advise against sending a snarky email/letter. Think about it - what do you think the hold up is, what positive do you think a snarky letter will accomplish, and what potential negatives might result? I suggest that the holdup is very unlikely the result of intentional delay by anyone, is question whether any positives would result, and I could easily imagine some negatives.
Yours is just one of a huge number of matters in someone’s queue. I’d suspect there is something about your matter that makes it enough of a hassle that the worker finds it easy to handle easier things first. I’m certain the IRS has some sort of system to track the pending time for matters such as yours. At some point, it will be classified as “aged/overdue”, such that it will be assigned priority and will get done.
I’m having a hard time imagining some staff employee getting a snarky letter and being motivated to say, “Gee, I guess I WILL tackle that thing I’ve been putting off.” Far more likely, I could imagine someone saying, “Fuck this clown - I’ll get to it when I get to it!” - and pushing it to the bottom of the pile.
What you want to do is make things as easy as possible for them to move your case. I would probably start a letter off with bulleted bolded points:
-THE ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED IS ___. MY ORIGINAL REQUEST WAS SENT aa/bb/cccc.
-on x-date, I sent xyz.
-on y-date, I spoke w/ Ms abc, and resent xyz.
-Please send z-doc to allow me to close the estate.
And then just wait. And tell the fucking whiners to shut the fuck up. Or maybe see if there is some way you can transfer your authority as executor to the biggest whiner…
I know precious little about stiffs and gifts, so if your lawyer and accountant are advising you to forestall ANY disbursement until this couple thousand $ matter is cleared up, by all means, follow their advice. In my ignorance, it seems exceedingly odd that at least a partial distribution could not be made, while retaining sufficient funds to cover any conceivable eventuality from this tax issue.
But WRT to heirs, just tell them to shut the fuck up and be glad they aren’t the executor. I would send periodic emails/letters informing them of the status and your efforts. IME, a lack of clear documentation/communication is behind many disputes with executors.
You could always withhold a nice hefty executor’s fee for having to deal with their whining. 
The majority of my late aunt’s assets were not part of the estate and have already been distributed. Given the nature of my late aunt’s financial affairs, it is not inconceivable that if the accountants really screwed up the entire estate could be consumed by tax bills.
Her will specifically excludes any compensation for me to act as executor. I suppose I could petition the court to be relieved as executor but I’m not going to do that.
Oh, definitely this, if the heirs are giving you grief.
Well then definitely fuck the whiney heirs. Screw that. They should be grateful to you for dealing with this.
Also, i urge you to write that snarky letter. Just don’t send it to the IRS. Post it here, send it to the heirs you like, read it aloud to your cat. And send the IRS a polite and helpful letter such as Dinsdale describes.
Oh wow. I’ve never heard of that. My gf has put in dozens/hundreds of hours working on her auntie’s estate. She runs stuff to the lawyer’s office weekly. Initially she was going to turn down the percentage paid to her as executrix, but I talked her out of that and she’s glad I did.
#%^@&# the IRS, &^%$&(% them in the ^)!@#!+ with a rusty &^)^(Y. Then (^(&^&% on their dead bodies. An IRS agent stole thousands of dollars from me and then others actively covered it up to protect the guy and themselves. I would do some terrible things just to see them suffer. Fuck whatever rules there are here, I wish harm upon them.
I wasn’t paid anything. And i put in a lot of time. And one of my brothers was whiney about piddling stuff. (He wanted a check, rather than wiring, a chunk of cash, to save the wiring fee. But then he thought i ought to drive the check half an hour each way to his house. I refused. Eventually his wife visited us and i gave her the check. It was a big check.)
And I’m counting the time until the damn thing is finalized. December. I’m done with everything except the final “evening up” of the last expenses, assuming no one complains and the estate is really closed and dead this winter.