# The "its" vs. "it's" lesson continues (sadly) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 19, 2005, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907 "2005-06-19T12:42:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/41 "2005-06-19T23:04:08Z")
I’ts? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/42 "2005-06-20T03:25:40Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > ABCs > > 13s Both are acceptable–ABCs/ABC’s or 13s/13’s. For numbers, I prefer the apostrophe-less plural, but for letters, I need that apostrophe to prevent confusion. To wit: Mary got three As, two Bs, and four Cs on her report card. Mary got three A’s, two B’s, and four C’s on her report card. The first version just looks very jarring to me, but YMMV. It’s even worse when you begin a sentence with it. _As are the best grade in the class._ or _A’s are the best grade in the class._ Yes, I suppose there’s this variation: _"A"s are the best grade in the class,_ but that just looks plain ugly to me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/43 "2005-06-20T05:59:49Z")
The Oakand As wear the A’s jerseys. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/44 "2005-06-20T06:00:52Z")
Oops: The Oakland As wear the As’ jerseys. ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/45 "2005-06-20T06:30:34Z")
Here’s one that always gets me: CBS’s or CBS’? As in: It’s all part of CBSs new fall lineup! I know the AP rule on it, but what do you think it should be? ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/46 "2005-06-20T06:31:53Z")
Oops, that should read, “It’s all part of CBS’ new fall lineup!” ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/47 "2005-06-20T06:41:19Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Bob is going to school. = Bob’s going to school. > The book belongs to Bob. = The book is Bob’s. > > Why do both get the apostrophe, but “it” does not? As I learned, it’s because “its” is a pronoun, as are “his”, “hers”, “ours”, “yours”, and “theirs”, none of which feature apostrophes. By the way, the possessive phrase “Bob’s book” is actually a contracted version of “Bob his book”. **SimonMoon5** : You can copy and paste the _¢_ symbol, as well as many other “special font characters”, from [this handy page](http://www.1728.com/altchar.htm) compiled by **SDMB** member **WolfMeister**. If he had paid me 0.25¢ each time I’ve mentioned the page on this board, I’d now be a couple of pennies richer… ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/48 "2005-06-20T06:52:11Z")
I read Giraffe’s [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6278378&postcount=16) in the thread he recently closed [on comma placement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=321804&page=1&pp=10), and I think there might be some confusion. They weren’t multiple threads on the same topic. They were two threads that were only slightly related to each other, in that each was about punctuation. This one was about the apostrophe, specifically in the “its” “it’s” example; the other was about the placement of the comma in quotations. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/49 "2005-06-20T07:39:47Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > These teams’ names are often abbreviated to O’s and A’s respectively. Putting in an apostrophe avoids the rather awkward appearance of Os and As. While that makes sense, I would avoid (on principle) using the names of sports teams as examples for grammar and spelling rules. The _Toronto Maple Leafs?_ :smack: Sometimes I think that people would be a lot less hesitant to take athletic scholarships seriously if they’d just knock that crap off. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/50 "2005-06-20T12:21:05Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > While that makes sense, I would avoid (on principle) using the names of sports teams as examples for grammar and spelling rules. > > The _Toronto Maple Leafs?_ :smack: That makes grammatical sense. There’s several examples of how normally irregular plurals take regular endings in English, depending on how they’re parsed. For example, the plural of “life” is “lives,” but the plural of “still life” is “still lifes.” The plural of “mouse,” in the computer sense, is often “mouses” (which I prefer to “mice.”) ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/51 "2005-06-20T12:55:58Z")
> [@Sternvogel](#): > > As I learned, it’s because “its” is a pronoun, as are “his”, “hers”, “ours”, “yours”, and “theirs”, none of which feature apostrophes. By the way, the possessive phrase “Bob’s book” is actually a contracted version of “Bob his book”. Well, that’s the thing. Normally, we use an 's to indicative possessive. E.g., that is Trunk’s car. Now, we all KNOW that the possessive of the pronoun “it” is “its”, but it’s not completely illogical that you’d think, “oh it’s a possessive, so I’m going to throw in the apostrophe.” I’m not saying it’s right. I know it’s wrong. I’m just saying that there’s a good reason why some stay confused. “It” is such a fucked up word anyway. There are times when it’s clearly a pronoun, but what the hell is it when you say “it is hot out there”. It’s not like it’s standing in for something. Yeah, I’m sure whatever it is is obvious to those of you who really know grammar, but for those of us who haven’t parsed a sentence since eighth grade, whatever that part of speech is is lost on me. That’s much different than the “arbitrary apostrophe”, as in someone writing, “There are five house’s on my street.” Besides, “it” can function as a noun (“we’re playing tag and he’s it.”) so there should be some circumstance where it would actually proper to write “it’s” as the possessive. “Whose shoe is that on the _tag field_?” “That’s it’s shoe.” I think the “its-it’s” is a completely different ballpark than “their”, “they’re” and “there”. Of all grammar rants, “its-it’s” is the LAMEST. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/52 "2005-06-20T13:04:11Z")
The apostrophe is my heroic flaw. Despite all of my efforts to speak and type correctly. Despite all of the people I’ve pissed off by correcting their grammer. Despite all the reading I’ve done in my life. I just can’t get it down straight. Their/there/they’re: no problem. Verb/noun agreement: no sweat. Rare and obscure syntax: easy as pie. Apostrophes: crash and burn. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/53 "2005-06-20T16:37:56Z")
> [@Ice Wolf](#): > > Life’s too short to go getting in a tizzy over other \*\*people’s \*\*spelling, though, IMHO. How 'bout this one? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/54 "2005-06-20T16:44:00Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > How 'bout this one? 😕 “…other people’s spelling” is correct. People is, in this case, being used as the plural of “person,” and as such the apostrophe is placed before the s. Similarly: men’s, women’s, children’s, Not: mens’, womens’, childrens’ ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/55 "2005-06-20T16:48:19Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > :People is, in this case, being used as the plural of “person,” and as such the apostrophe is placed before the s. Is it needed, or can it be left out e.g., peoples ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/56 "2005-06-20T18:48:25Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Is it needed, or can it be left out e.g., peoples Not if you’re indicating a possessive. The apostrophe should only be left out if you are pluralizing the term. e.g., The world is comprised of many different peoples. ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/57 "2005-06-20T21:36:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > 😕 > > “…other people’s spelling” is correct. > > People is, in this case, being used as the plural of “person,” and as such the apostrophe is placed before the s. > > Similarly: men’s, women’s, children’s, > > Not: mens’, womens’, childrens’ An easy way to remember this is that “men” is already plural, so an s isn’t needed; hence the possessive is added to the plural “men” as in “men’s” in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/58 "2005-06-20T21:39:37Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > \“Whose shoe is that on the _tag field_?” > > “That’s it’s shoe.” > > \ No literate person would say, “That is it is shoe,” which is what you’ve just suggested. ---
**Author:** ![ethanwinfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/96bed5/32.png) [@ethanwinfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethanwinfield)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907/59 "2005-06-20T22:15:25Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > That’s much different than the “arbitrary apostrophe”, as in someone writing, “There are five house’s on my street.” I don’t often see people add arbitrary apostrophes to words that you add -es to make the plural–foxes, boxes, wishes. I have a theory as to why some people add the arbitrary apostrophe to words ending in s: An apostrophe is used to indicate missing letters. For example, in 'bout or diff’rent the apostrophe shows that at least one letter is missing. My theory is that people understand that you add -es to make words plural. When adding just an -s, the e becomes a “missing” letter. Hence the 's after words like house’s. You wouldn’t write “housees,” therefore the second e must be replaced by an apostrophe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-its-vs-its-lesson-continues-sadly/308907.md?page=2)