# The Jazz Singer (Al Jolson) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 15, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241 "2013-01-15T01:34:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/1 "2013-01-15T01:34:42Z")
So, as soon as Netflix delivers the DVD, I’m going to watch the first full length talking picture, The Jazz Singer. From reading IMDB and Wikipedia, the movie isn’t actually a full talking movie, but only a few scenes feature dialogue as many theaters at that time could not show sound movies. It should be an interesting watch. I’m not hyper politically correct enough to get worked up about minstrel shows or blackface, it is a movie from 1927. Your opinions? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/2 "2013-01-18T20:13:18Z")
Well, this thread took off like crazy and got so many responses. Open spoilers to follow for this very old movie. Anyway, I watched\* The Jazz Singer\* and here are my impressions. The movie is basically a silent movie. Music is added as well as two scenes of actual dialogue This is a silent movie with music. There are only 2 dialogue scenes. One with Al Jolson talking to an audience for less than a minute and then an extended dialogue with his mother. The movie’s plot is basic. The dad is a Jewish priest, he wants his kid to sing in the temple. The kid wants to sing popular music of the time. The kid leaves and becomes a popular singer. Dad still rejects him, but mom still accepts him. Of course, his dad is near death when Jolson’s character is supposed to debut his new show. As a silent movie, it is average. The historical movie is more important. Al Jolson singing must have been amazing for this audience. While his style is quite dated, it is entertaining. An Al Jolson born in the mid 1990’s would probably be a popular pop star today. The blackface scenes didn’t bother me one bit after reading up about it. Jolson was a fierce defender of black artists. This isn’t a college frat running a mock slave auction. I’ll probably rent the movie again, but it is a movie I’ll come back to every few years. I’m glad I got to see America in the late 1920’s. . ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/3 "2013-01-18T21:11:40Z")
I just remember a few scenes from the movie: His dad wanted him to sing the “Kol Nidre.” That weird-ass whistling with his whole hand in his mouth, so it seemed. His sitting in a chair, singing to his mother. But, yeah, a silent movie with a few scenes with sound. This plot was re-used in the cartoon [I Love to Singa (1936)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Love_to_Singa) with “Our Gang” alumni Tommy ‘Butch’ Bond voicing the songs of “Owl Jolson” and Billy Bletcher voicing his dad “Professor Fritz Owl.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/4 "2013-01-18T21:33:38Z")
Also redone by [Neil Diamond](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080948/) in 1980. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/5 "2013-01-19T00:00:53Z")
You’ve also got remember just how big Jolson was when this came out. Reviews were built around him on Broadway. He “made” songs. If Jolson sang it, it was a hit. Also the film was semi-autobiographical (or at least perceived that way). I have read a number of autobiographies of people living at that time and they all repeat what a watershed moment it was when they heard Jolson say, actually SAY, “You ain’t head nothin’ yet!” I think one of the key things to watching, and listening to this film is to mentally take yourself back to the '20s and watch it from that vantage point. I was kid when I first saw it. I think 14. It was late night on a Saturday. The channel I was watching would show silent films late Saturday. So I was watching what I thought was a silent. For the first 1/4 or so it was. Then, HE TALKED…HE TALKED. Then He SANG. I was floored. I turned to tell someone, but I was the only one up. I just watched with my mouth open. I knew this was something special, but I was a kid, I didn’t know it was the seminal moment in talking pictures. I just leaned back and enjoyed the moment. Granted it was decades after the actual moment, but I felt I was sort of taking part in “THE” moment in my own way. ---
**Author:** ![from\_a\_to\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5fc32e/32.png) [@from\_a\_to\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/from_a_to_z)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/6 "2013-01-19T02:03:09Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > I have read a number of autobiographies of people living at that time and they all repeat what a watershed moment it was when they heard Jolson say, actually SAY, “You ain’t head nothin’ yet!” Just as Jolson declaimed the previous year, 1926, in his all-talking all-singing “A Plantation Act”, also on TJS DVD. So it was more of the same, at least for the folks in the big cities, but now in a feature-length film that got wide distribution. And of course it does help that Jolson on film is a dynamic performer. Besides the various sound-film experiments from the early days onward (for example [Edison in 1894, synchronized sound on phonograph record](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwIcRSvQ_TY)), there are films like the DeForest Phonofilms ([wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonofilm)) of 1923 onward. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/7 "2013-01-19T02:25:49Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The movie’s plot is basic. The dad is a Jewish priest . . . Nitpick: Not a priest, a [cantor.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazzan) Synagogues have professional soloists, instead of choirs, to sing the hymn. A Jewish friend invited me to a service last year and the cantor was a woman (Refom temple) who is also an opera singer. Jewish hymns are not for the faint of voice – a fact which plays an important role in the plot of _The Jazz Singer,_ when Jackie/Jakie’s Dad falls ill and the synagogue needs some proficient singer to sing the Kol Nidre for Yom Kippur. (If the old man had been a priest, his name would have been [Cohen,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohen) not Rabinowitz. Jewish priests are a hereditary caste, Sons of Aaron . . . they don’t matter much in Judaism any more, not since the Romans destroyed the Jerusalem Temple in 71 A.D. – the priests’ job was to do animal sacrifices, and they can’t be done anywhere else.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/8 "2013-01-19T02:51:35Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > You’ve also got remember just how big Jolson was when this came out. Reviews were built around him on Broadway. He “made” songs. If Jolson sang it, it was a hit. Al Jolson singing: [“Toot, Toot, Tootsie, Goodbye”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BSIe1BAp3Y) (clip from _The Jazz Singer_ – no one had ever **sung** like that before, with that kind of body-motion and all! Proto-rock-star!) [“My Mammy”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIaj7FNHnjQ) _(Jazz Singer)_ [“Waiting for the Robert E. Lee”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngDMktoVgwc) [“Swanee”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqaaZM3l9t0) Compare and contrast: [“Swanee River”/“Old Folks at Home”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgwYmDgdpvM) [“Oh, Susanna”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5UCb8Y0fYQ) [“Camptown Races”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tuu5YtkPIo) The last three are from [_Swanee River_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swanee_River_(film)) (1939), a biopic of Stephen Foster (practically everything Foster wrote was for the minstrel stage). Jolson plays the 19th-Century minstrel-show performer and impresario E.P. Christie. Jazz-Age blackface minstrelsy was a very different art-form from traditional 19th-Century minstrelsy. See Eddie Cantor [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbX5ryEXLBE) and [here.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFPgCGlxQa0) The latter is from [_Ali Baba Goes to Town_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_baba_goes_to_town) (1937); it is less a parody of African-American art and culture than a tribute to it, particularly the Harlem Renaissance. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/9 "2013-01-19T03:03:50Z")
[Judy Garland sings in blackface.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7Y2Ll24GRU) (From [(1938).) I know Judy Garland and Andy Rooney did blackface numbers in [url=[Babes in Arms (film) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babes_in_Arms_(film))]_Babes in Arms_](]_Everbody Sing_[/url) and [_Babes on Broadway,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babes_on_Broadway) but I can’t find them on YouTube. [This](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6dXrm1YjBE) traditional minstrel-show number, with sand-dancing, is from [_Yes, Sir Mr. Bones_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044222/) (1951). Worth seeing. I don’t care what color you are or how offensive it is, if you don’t dig this you got no **soul!** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/10 "2013-01-19T03:13:14Z")
[TVTropes on Blackface.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Blackface) > [@](#): > > **Blackface** is the tradition of a performer putting on stylized black makeup to appear as a stereotyped character of African descent. Blackface performances often took the form of Minstrel Shows. As much as some people would like to forget it, blackface performances were mainstream American entertainment for almost 100 years until racial backlash finally capsized them. Blackface imagery was also transported to other countries, where the lesser stigma against it allowed the tradition to prosper for longer. Blackface characters still pop up in Japanese culture from time to time. > > \ > > **Tropes associated with Blackface:** > > • Ash Face: Older animated works would often segue from an Ash Face incident to a Blackface gag. > • Big Lipped Alligator Moment: (A rather unfortunately named trope for this page.) A common trope of early cinema was to find some excuse for the main character to intentionally or accidentally take on the appearance of blackface, then pause for a minstrel show-style musical number. > • Dead Horse Trope: Blackface never appears in modern mainstream media played straight. If it shows up at all, it’s for Black Comedy (No Pun Intended) or satirical purposes, or it comes from a country where it’s not as taboo. Of course, racists still cling to it for warmth. > • Older Than They Think: The tradition of blackface extends hundreds of years before its rise in popularity in America. > • Old Shame: In its heyday, blackface was a major part of America’s distinct artistic culture. Today it’s treated as an embarrassing episode in American history. Many beloved film and cartoon characters appeared in blackface in the early days of film and animation, when the trope was still mainstream. The companies who now own these intellectual properties are understandably reluctant to air them out. > • Paper-Thin Disguise: Often when blackface cropped up in old cartoons and slapstick it was being used as a disguise. This was seen as no more wrong than having the character cross-dress at the time. > • Pretty Fly (for a White Guy): The modern-day successor to blackface, in which non-black people will behave in ways that are stereotypical for black people. However, the intention in this case is usually to be cool rather than to mock black culture. > • Values Dissonance: Blackface was once considered (by white people) as harmless good fun, but appearing in blackface today is about as acceptable as burning a cross. > • Zeroth Law Of Trope Examples: The eponymous role in Othello was traditionally played by a white actor in blackface, and this remained the case long after blackface had become unacceptable in most media. Shakespeare himself at least had the excuse of black actors being in rather short supply in England at the time. > > \ > > Al Jolson’s _The Jazz Singer_ features the main character performing in blackface in a minstrel show as part of his journey to self-expression. Ironically, Jolson’s character can only express himself by putting on the mask of a black man. This was also semi-biographical, as Al Jolson really did perform in blackface and felt a special kinship with African-Americans. He actually helped a lot of blacks break into the music business, demanded that they receive equal treatment, and was famously the only white man allowed in the all-black nightclubs in Harlem. [TVTropes on Minstrel Shows:](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MinstrelShows) > [@](#): > > Minstrel shows were a type of entertainment that originated before the American Civil War and continued to be popular throughout the 19th century and into the 20th. The show consisted of white performers appearing in blackface, often sitting in a semicircle on the stage and taking turns performing a variety of acts. The shows often had two emcees known as Mr. Tambo and Mr. Bones. The shows were heavily based on mocking and lampooning stereotypical black culture, but the music was also taken seriously for its artistic merit. > Despite the Values Dissonance of the basic premise, the minstrel show is significant for several reasons: > • Minstrel shows were the first uniquely American form of artistic expression. Like Vaudeville and Burlesque, they were were Variety Shows, featuring a mix of song, dance, sketch comedy and stand-up comedy. These forms combined with aspects of Operetta contributed to the development of American Musical Theater. > • The minstrel show was one of the few ways for actual black performers to be seen by a large audience. Sadly, they would also appear in blackface and often disguised the fact that they were actually black. There were, however, several famous black minstrel show performers. > • The musical performance portions were initially white parodies of black music, but the parodies became so popular that they spawned a legitimate genre of African-influenced music. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show) also has a fascinating history of minstrel shows. Apparently they were actually pretty good, because they attracted a lot of real artistic talent (they were the most popular form of American stage entertainment for more than a century, and the artists go where the money is). [Paging Spike Lee!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboozled) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/11 "2013-01-19T05:43:37Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Well, this thread took off like crazy and got so many responses. Satisfied now? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C.Montgomery_Burns)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/12 "2013-01-19T13:29:11Z")
One scene in The Jazz Singer that stands out to me- the scene of young Jakie singing Waiting On The Robert E. Lee in a bar. The piano player is terrifying for a reason I can’t quite put my finger on. And Jakie’s voice is pretty disturbing, too. As is that floppy dancing he does. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/13 "2013-01-19T14:00:44Z")
> [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](#): > > One scene in The Jazz Singer that stands out to me- the scene of young Jakie singing Waiting On The Robert E. Lee in a bar. The piano player is terrifying for a reason I can’t quite put my finger on. Because he chugs beer between measures without missing a beat? ---
**Author:** ![C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C.Montgomery_Burns)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/14 "2013-01-19T16:05:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Because he chugs beer between measures without missing a beat? More like whatever makeup they used on the actor made him look like a prepared corpse…and his facial expressions were off. Something “Uncanny Valley-ish” about that whole scene. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jazz-singer-al-jolson/647241/15 "2013-01-21T00:56:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Judy Garland sings in blackface.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7Y2Ll24GRU) (From [(1938).) > > I know Judy Garland and Andy Rooney did blackface numbers in [url=[Babes in Arms (film) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babes_in_Arms_(film))]_Babes in Arms_](]_Everbody Sing_[/url) and [_Babes on Broadway,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babes_on_Broadway) but I can’t find them on YouTube.\*\* I know, of course, you meant “Micky Rooney” but the mental image of “Andy Rooney” from _60 Minutes_ belting out minstral songs with Judy Garland honestly had me fall out of the chair laughing..thank you for the delightful moment.