# The Jehovahs Witlesses called today **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 29, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596 "2009-01-29T19:24:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/81 "2009-02-02T16:28:35Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > … > > I’m in no way endorsing the COS, btw, they charge a $200 admittance fee which I think is stupid 😛 > > … It’s still cheaper and less scary than Scientology. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/82 "2009-02-02T17:14:17Z")
I had a friend who took the opportunity to engage the JW in a nice discussion about God arguing that either God is evil or that he’s not all powerful. If God was all powerful, Satan would not be able to influence Earth. If he is all powerful, then he is evil because he is letting evil prosper. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/83 "2009-02-02T20:35:45Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > I had a friend who took the opportunity to engage the JW in a nice discussion about God arguing that either God is evil or that he’s not all powerful. > > If God was all powerful, Satan would not be able to influence Earth. If he is all powerful, then he is evil because he is letting evil prosper. I trust that your friend has never heard of “the law of unintended consequences”… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/84 "2009-02-02T20:39:01Z")
I believe Epicurus came up with that argument, **Intergalactic Gladiator**. **the raindog** : how can the actions of an omnipotent, omniscient being have unintended consequences? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/85 "2009-02-02T20:44:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I believe Epicurus came up with that argument, **Intergalactic Gladiator**. > > **the raindog** : how can the actions of an omnipotent, omniscient being have unintended consequences? There would be no unintended consequences for such a God. There would be _for the creations_ of such a God if, through a misguided attempt to eliminate evil (through Divine _intervention_) lost the elements of _free will._ ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/86 "2009-02-02T20:56:38Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > I had a friend who took the opportunity to engage the JW in a nice discussion about God arguing that either God is evil or that he’s not all powerful. > > If God was all powerful, Satan would not be able to influence Earth. If he is all powerful, then he is evil because he is letting evil prosper. I sometimes ask JWs why would I want to worship a god who could have stopped 9/11 and didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/87 "2009-02-02T21:03:52Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I sometimes ask JWs why would I want to worship a god who could have stopped 9/11 and didn’t. What do they sometimes answer? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/88 "2009-02-02T21:10:29Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > What do they sometimes answer? One actually said “Because he couldn’t.” God can do anything. Most give the “men can’t understand the mind of god” line. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/89 "2009-02-02T21:17:03Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > One actually said “Because he couldn’t.” God can do anything. > > Most give the “men can’t understand the mind of god” line. Not just JWs of course but many others have said something close to this over the years and yet they belong to churches where men (and almost always just men) do try to say what is on God’s mind. This is what made me leave the Church when I was still a kid. We can’t understand God and God’s plan but here is what he wants you to do. 😕 My 8 year old brain pretty much rejected churches swiftly at that point. My 42 year brain still doesn’t understand churches and faith. Well accept in the famous quote “Religion is the opiate of the people.” I get Marx’s point even if I tend to disagree with his writings in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/90 "2009-02-02T21:20:18Z")
Now that we’re getting off topic, I don’t think there’s anything anyone can tell me to convince me of their religion. It’s just words and ideas of men, nothing more. If god can communicate to me directly I’m more than willing to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/91 "2009-02-02T21:22:00Z")
I tell you one thing **What Exit?** –Anyone who tells me that "men"in the Bible means men and women is getting called on being ignorant. When the Bible was written, men only meant men and women were classifed as something lower. > [@control-z](#): > > Now that we’re getting off topic, I don’t think there’s anything anyone can tell me to convince me of their religion. It’s just words and ideas of men, nothing more. If god can communicate to me directly I’m more than willing to listen. God does communicate with you. Through the Bible and (for the JW’s anyway) their thousands of tracts interpreting it. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/92 "2009-02-02T21:27:36Z")
I confess I am left puzzled by JWs–I get that they are called to spread the gospel etc, but seriously, do they understand that most people 1. want nothing to do with door to door solicitation and 2. want nothing to do with doorstep conversion? It must work somewhere in the world, but not in my neighborhood. When I was young and not assertive, I used to hide under the kitchen table when they rang the doorbell (given the way this house is set up, that was the only place I could be where they couldn’t see me. It was silly and childish and stupid, but I did it–that’s how much I didn’t want to talk to these people.) I grew up a bit and decided to face them–usually two elderly black women–I ask if they are JWs and they say yes and I say I’m not interested; you have a nice day and close the door. End of story. Until last time. That time it wasn’t 2 elderly black women, but a very young black guy with a very old white guy. Black guy was nice; white guy was a dick who finished black guy’s sentences and prompted him (he must have been new to this whole thing). White guy wouldn’t let me talk. I got fed up with White Jerk and told him to get lost. As I closed the door, I told black guy to think for himself. Dunno if I had any effect–hope so. IMO it’s a hateful, ignorant religion. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/93 "2009-02-02T21:31:15Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > One actually said “Because he couldn’t.” God can do anything. > > Most give the “men can’t understand the mind of god” line. I’m sorry, but I’ll be a bit more blunt this time, and try to be as respectful as I can in the process. I’ve noticed that you post to the majority of the threads that deal with JWs. It has been my long observation that the overwhelming amount of your posts that purport to relay accounts/policies/doctrines and interactions you’ve had with JWs don’t bear any resemblance to any JW I’ve ever known. Frankly, they appear to be abject lies. And it isn’t simply the over-the-top nonsense, like elders visiting you-----a non-JW—to debate you over a blood transfusion for your sister----another non-JW----and telling you that they wished your sister got hepatitis that rings like nonsense. Even the garden variety stuff----like this post----often ascribe to them terms, phrases, concepts that are foreign to JWs. I’m left thinking you have an ax to grind and don’t mind lying through your keyboard to advance your cause. I can’t imagine _any_ JW answering \*any \*question with _any_ variation of _“men can’t understand the mind of god.”_ It’s a common meme in Christendom, but would not be among JWs. I have no ax to grind with you either. My response frankly is to the other posters who might be inclined to believe the hogwash that thunders off your keyboard. (and posters often----like in these 2 threads----are incredulous that a group calling itself Christian would carry on the way you desribe-----apparently unaware of the extremely high probability that you’re making this garbage up as you go along) ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/94 "2009-02-02T21:31:19Z")
My best friend who was raised as JW used to have to go out “on service” when he was a teenager. I always thought that was weird. If nothing else it taught him to be more outgoing. I guess if you really truly believe you’re spreading the One True Gospel maybe it’s understandable. My friend was just doing what his mom made him do. I can think of 101 reasons it’s bad to have kids going door to door. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/95 "2009-02-02T21:35:44Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > My best friend who was raised as JW used to have to go out “on service” when he was a teenager. I always thought that was weird. If nothing else it taught him to be more outgoing. > > I guess if you really truly believe you’re spreading the One True Gospel maybe it’s understandable. My friend was just doing what his mom made him do. > > I can think of 101 reasons it’s bad to have kids going door to door. Of course, the JWs would have one reason—and maybe one or two more, and really no more than that----that would render those 101 reasons _meaningless_ to them. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/96 "2009-02-02T21:36:31Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > They told me they hoped my sister got hepatitus from the transfusion and left. The JW’s I know in real life would never say such a thing. They are polite and friendly to a fault. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/97 "2009-02-02T21:39:23Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > The JW’s I know in real life would never say such a thing. They are polite and friendly to a fault. In a MB that often _devalues_ maturity and _advances_ ignorance, I want to _thank you_ for your observations. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/98 "2009-02-02T21:39:45Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > The JW’s I know in real life would never say such a thing. They are polite and friendly to a fault. Also one or two people don’t represent a whole religion/race/species/whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/99 "2009-02-02T21:42:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I would like to know if JW have ever really converted anyone by door to door soliciting, any time, any place, anywhere… Oh, certainly. That’s why they go out in twos: The primary effect is for the two missionaries to convert each other (or at least, reinforce each others’ faiths). The last time I had a couple of JWs come to my door, I engaged them for at least an hour or two in theological and philosophical discussion. Eventually, they just said that they’d send one or two of their superiors, who was better versed in such matters, in a few days, but I must not have been home when they came. A pity; I’d actually done my homework for that second meeting, looking up some choice Bible quotes. In the meantime, though, I think I managed to thoroughly confuse them, since I don’t think they’d ever met anyone with my precise set of beliefs. Which is good: Confusion is the first step towards critical thinking, which I think is a good thing for anyone to practice. I think I may have even managed to convince them that the Book I read is superior to the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596/100 "2009-02-02T21:44:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, certainly. That’s why they go out in twos: The primary effect is for the two missionaries to convert each other (or at least, reinforce each others’ faiths). > > The last time I had a couple of JWs come to my door, I engaged them for at least an hour or two in theological and philosophical discussion. Eventually, they just said that they’d send one or two of their superiors, who was better versed in such matters, in a few days, but I must not have been home when they came. A pity; I’d actually done my homework for that second meeting, looking up some choice Bible quotes. > > In the meantime, though, I think I managed to thoroughly confuse them, since I don’t think they’d ever met anyone with my precise set of beliefs. Which is good: Confusion is the first step towards critical thinking, which I think is a good thing for anyone to practice. I think I may have even managed to convince them that the Book I read is superior to the Bible. What Bible quotes were those, pray tell? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jehovahs-witlesses-called-today/483596.md?page=6)