# "The Jena Six" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902 "2007-09-20T19:16:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/221 "2007-09-23T01:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Which post #? I came into this thread a little late. [/quote] [According to this article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/03/AR2007080302098_2.html), it was months before Bailey’s attack was investigated, and the attacker was only charged with simple assault and given probation. Bailey did not seek medical treatment, so he probably wasn’t seriously injured… or he didn’t have insurance. > [@](#): > > Anyway, if the “beer bottle incident” was a vicious attack, then people should be agitating for the perpetrators to be aggressively prosecuted. Not for the Jena 6 to be let off the hook. Yeah, most times when someone busts a beer bottle on another person’s head, it’s not a vicious attack. More of a love tap. :rolleyes: And the fact is, they WEREN’T aggressively prosecuted, but the Jena 6 were, until people protested it and called attention to it. **Unregistered Bull** , you keep saying “extremely violent.” I do not think it means what you think it means. That boy would be much more fucked up if it were an extremely violent attack. It wasn’t hugs and kisses, but it was pretty mild considering the school was burned down not long before. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/222 "2007-09-23T01:15:07Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] [According to this article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/03/AR2007080302098_2.html), it was months before Bailey’s attack was investigated, and the attacker was only charged with simple assault and given probation. Bailey did not seek medical treatment, so he probably wasn’t seriously injured… or he didn’t have insurance. Yeah, most times when someone busts a beer bottle on another person’s head, it’s not a vicious attack. More of a love tap. :rolleyes: And the fact is, they WEREN’T aggressively prosecuted, but the Jena 6 were, until people protested it and called attention to it. [/QUOTE] I followed that cite from that from Wikipedia. It doesn’t say anything about the truthfulness of the alleged beer bottle incident. Given your dismissal of 6 on 1 attacks and beating already unconscious victims, I’m kind of surprised that you don’t consider beer bottles over the head as love taps. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/223 "2007-09-23T01:33:33Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Nothing in your link says that he denies the provocation…not that his word is worth anything in the first place. [/quote] Here’s what it says in the link: > [@](#): > > Justin Barker, 17, testified that he had just come out of his high school gym with his girlfriend walking ahead of him on Dec. 4 when they turned to avoid a group of black students. > > “I turned my back and somebody hit me, that’s all I remember,” Barker said. Anyway, what is the name of the witness who says that he made racist taunts? > [@](#): > > What is your point in bringing it up? Do you think that there really aren’t any differences between the scenarios you asked me to compare? Of course there are differences. That’s why I brought it up. Duh. > [@](#): > > What is this Google search supposed to prove? Are you trying to claim that people on the internets (none of whom are in this thread) are saying “Free the Jena 6” are claiming that they should have been charged with nothing at all? Cite? Cite: [Color Of Change](http://www.colorofchange.org/jena/) > [@](#): > > I have asked District Attorney Reed Walters to drop all charges against the six young men. > [@](#): > > I think it’s a tad stiff, but whatever, I won’t argue. I hope we can agree that charging them with attempted murder was over the top. I would need to know more about the facts and the law to make up my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/224 "2007-09-23T01:38:01Z")
[QUOTE=Unregistered Bull] I followed that cite from that from Wikipedia. It doesn’t say anything about the truthfulness of the alleged beer bottle incident. Given your dismissal of 6 on 1 attacks and beating already unconscious victims, I’m kind of surprised that you don’t consider beer bottles over the head as love taps. 😃 [/QUOTE] It was a Washington Post article cite in post #221, and if the guy who attacked Bailey was charged with battery and convicted, something must have happened. I haven’t dismissed the 6 on 1 attacks. Please do not insist on mischaracterizing my stance. Don’t you think there’s enough of that going on here? I think Barker got punched and that knocked him out. He fell down, was kicked a couple of times. That is not\* incredible, extreme violence\*. That’s a standard issue ass whupping. It should be punished as such. It wasn’t attempted murder, it wasn’t conspiracy to commit murder, it wasn’t beyond the fucking pale. Sorry, you’ll never get me to agree with your view here. I just wish you’d acknowledge the facts as they are, which is that the boy in question wasn’t really very hurt, so how extreme or incredible could the attack have been??? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/225 "2007-09-23T01:42:36Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Here’s what it says in the link: [/QUOTE] Still no denial of the taunts leading up to it, nor his vocal support of the noose hangers. > [@](#): > > Anyway, what is the name of the witness who says that he made racist taunts? There were several of them. It occurred over a long period of time. He called multiple black students “nigger.” > [@](#): > > Cite: [Color Of Change](http://www.colorofchange.org/jena/) Strange. I guess you can find crackpots who wuill agitate for anything. I signed the petition myself just for giggles. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/226 "2007-09-23T01:52:58Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Still no denial of the taunts leading up to it, nor his vocal support of the noose hangers. There were several of them. It occurred over a long period of time. He called multiple black students “nigger.” [/quote] Can you tell me their names? Or at least give me some links? If he really did call black students “niggers” on a regular basis, then yeah, it’s hard to have a lot of sympathy for him. But I still think that if 6 guys attacked him and kicked him after he was down, they need to go to jail. > [@](#): > > Strange. I guess you can find crackpots who wuill agitate for anything. I signed the petition myself just for giggles. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/227 "2007-09-23T02:05:51Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] There were several of them. It occurred over a long period of time. He called multiple black students “nigger.” [/QUOTE] He was also arrested for bringing a loaded shotgun to school on May 10, and obviously expelled from school for it. He’s a real peach. ---
**Author:** ![snake\_oil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@snake\_oil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snake_oil)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/228 "2007-09-23T02:17:41Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] He was also arrested for bringing a loaded shotgun to school on May 10, and obviously expelled from school for it. He’s a real peach. [/QUOTE] At least he didn’t get 5 of his friends and go beat the shit out of anyone. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/229 "2007-09-23T02:23:40Z")
[QUOTE=snake oil] At least he didn’t get 5 of his friends and go beat the shit out of anyone. [/QUOTE] He certainly hasn’t been caught and arrested for doing that. ---
**Author:** ![snake\_oil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@snake\_oil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snake_oil)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/230 "2007-09-23T02:26:42Z")
[QUOTE=lisacurl] He certainly hasn’t been caught and arrested for doing that. [/QUOTE] Exactly. So we must assume that he has never done such a thing. A 6 on 1 beating is much worse than simply calling someone a nigger or even tying a noose to a tree. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/231 "2007-09-23T02:35:12Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] No, sorry, displaying nooses \*on school property \* is hate speech, which is not protected under the First Amendment. Drawing a swastika on a synagogue is protected either, nor is burning a cross on someone’s lawn. Burning a flag in a public place is legal, as is a KKK rally in public with a permit, etc. [/QUOTE] A closer look at the conversation will reveal that I was talking about the kid recently arrested in a different parish for displaying nooses from his own vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/232 "2007-09-23T02:44:34Z")
6 on 1 beating certainly sounds like a serious crime. how long was the victim hospitalized? a month? no? I knew of a case where the victim was stabbed, nearly died, spent weeks in the hospital & the perp was charged w/a misdemeanor. yea, it was 6 on 1. wouldn’t you expect that \*\* if\*\* the 6 intended death or serious harm, the victim wouldn’t be at a social/school function the same day? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/233 "2007-09-23T02:44:42Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] A closer look at the conversation will reveal that I was talking about the kid recently arrested in a different parish for displaying nooses from his own vehicle. [/QUOTE] I think she is talking about these nooses: Aug 31, 2006: During a Jena High School assembly, a black male freshman student asked permission to sit in the shade of the “white tree” (where traditionally only white students sat). The principal responded that the students could “sit wherever they wanted”. That afternoon, he and his friends sat under the tree. Sep 1, 2006: **That morning, three nooses were found hanging from the tree – a clear reference to the historical lynching of blacks once widely practiced by white racists, especially in the southern states of the US**. From the timeline in lisacurl’s Post #80. [http://www.bayoubuzz.com/News/Louisiana/Politics/Jena\_Six\_Timeline\_\_4731.asp](http://www.bayoubuzz.com/News/Louisiana/Politics/Jena_Six_Timeline__4731.asp). ---
**Author:** ![snake\_oil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@snake\_oil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snake_oil)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/234 "2007-09-23T02:57:11Z")
[QUOTE=wring] 6 on 1 beating certainly sounds like a serious crime. how long was the victim hospitalized? a month? no? [/quote] Thank goodness for the quick reaction of the bystanders who pulled the thugs off of the victim in this case. > [@](#): > > I knew of a case where the victim was stabbed, nearly died, spent weeks in the hospital & the perp was charged w/a misdemeanor. Facinating. > [@](#): > > yea, it was 6 on 1. wouldn’t you expect that \*\* if\*\* the 6 intended death or serious harm, the victim wouldn’t be at a social/school function the same day? Thank goodness for the quick reaction of the bystanders who pulled the thugs off of the victim in this case. ---
**Author:** ![snake\_oil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@snake\_oil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snake_oil)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/235 "2007-09-23T03:03:25Z")
[QUOTE=snake oil] Thank goodness for the quick reaction of the bystanders who pulled the thugs off of the victim in this case. Facinating. Thank goodness for the quick reaction of the bystanders who pulled the thugs off of the victim in this case. [/QUOTE] Fucking typo. Fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/236 "2007-09-23T04:16:30Z")
[QUOTE=snake oil] At least he didn’t get 5 of his friends and go beat the shit out of anyone. [/QUOTE] So he must be a wonderful boy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/237 "2007-09-23T04:17:26Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] I think she is talking about these nooses: Aug 31, 2006: During a Jena High School assembly, a black male freshman student asked permission to sit in the shade of the “white tree” (where traditionally only white students sat). The principal responded that the students could “sit wherever they wanted”. That afternoon, he and his friends sat under the tree. Sep 1, 2006: **That morning, three nooses were found hanging from the tree – a clear reference to the historical lynching of blacks once widely practiced by white racists, especially in the southern states of the US**. From the timeline in lisacurl’s Post #80. [http://www.bayoubuzz.com/News/Louisiana/Politics/Jena\_Six\_Timeline\_\_4731.asp](http://www.bayoubuzz.com/News/Louisiana/Politics/Jena_Six_Timeline__4731.asp). [/QUOTE] I think so too, and likely they fall under the protection of free speech as well. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/238 "2007-09-23T05:18:22Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] I think so too, and likely they fall under the protection of free speech as well. [/QUOTE] [Not exactly](http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/Speech/studentexpression/topic_faqs.aspx?topic=hate_speech). If there is a history of racial tension and racist symbols are displayed, the school can legally ban them. This has come up with Confederate flags, and if the school can prove that the symbol is going to cause a “substantial disruption or material interference” with the functioning of the school, they can disallow it. I’d say that the nooses in Jena qualify like crazy, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/239 "2007-09-23T05:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] I think so too, and likely they fall under the protection of free speech as well. [/QUOTE] Students do not have a right to free speech in a public school. Schools regulate the speech of students all the time. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902/240 "2007-09-23T23:55:24Z")
> [@Diogenes The Cynic](#): > > I am a white person who has traveled all over the world. I have never in my life encountered “anti-white racism.” > [@Diogenes The Cynic](#): > > They did it because he was an asshole and he needed a beat down. They probably went too far with it, but it wasn’t a hate crime. Looks like you need go no further than the closest mirror to find “anti-white racism”, Dio. :rolleyes: In this thread, numerous posts have concerned nitpicking about what articles of the Constitution mean, definitions of certain words as they apply to criminal charges, and so forth. I recall a time when the law was inflexible, and men were expected to either follow it or pay the consequences for its violation. The Constitution was a simple document, with a straightforward meaning, a protective cloak for all citizens. Now, the law is gray, indistinct, and malleable, to be formed to fit your viewpoints if you argue long and hard enough about it. The former protective cloak of the Constitution is now a tattered, soiled shmatte, stained with exudate of the vile acts it has been invoked to cover. For a moment, let’s consider the Jena 6 by a standard that most of us can remember, a standard which cared not what the law or courts had written: **What your Mom would say.** Hang nooses in a tree? _Don’t do that. It’s hateful and ignorant. I’m ashamed of you._ Go to a party where you weren’t invited? _Don’t do that. You’re looking for trouble._ Bust a bottle over someone’s head? _I didn’t raise you to do that! What is the matter with you?_ Kick someone in the head? _Weeping._ You can call it simplistic, but I submit that black, white, latino, asian, or whatever, your Mom didn’t teach you hateful stuff, and the last thing she wants is to see her child, in an orange jumpsuit, standing before a judge. She doesn’t give a damn about convoluted defenses that hinge on the interpretation of a word or how a court applied the matter of Wyoming v Jones. She knows, and you know, in your heart, that you’ve fucked up, and now you’re going to jail because you didn’t behave the way the lady taught you, and worst of all, she feels like _she_ fucked up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jena-six/419902.md?page=13)