# The Jeopardy thread \[was James Holzhauer\]\[contains spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** reality-or-game-show\ **Created:** [April 17, 2019, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696 "2019-04-17T21:53:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Paxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Paxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paxx)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/321 "2019-05-12T18:22:52Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Is there a reason we shouldn’t try to make games better or more fair? > … > Should we make reaction time _more_ relevant, or does Jeopardy have the exact correct balance of reaction time/trivia knowledge? > > I am pretty suspicious of a claim that reaction time should be part of the contest, but that we shouldn’t increase its value … Who are the “we” that you’re referring to and what’s with the “should” and “shouldn’t”? Have you contacted the producers and let them know how they can make more money by following your suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/322 "2019-05-12T20:48:22Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I am pretty suspicious of a claim that reaction time should be part of the contest, but that we shouldn’t increase its value; it’s exactly the right amount right now. Sounds like just status quo bias. The current buzzer system hasn’t always been as it is. This is where it has been refined to. And it’s good. Are you also suspicious of people who think cross-country skiing is an important part of the biathlon but that we shouldn’t increase its value? Jeopardy is a biathlon of sorts. By definition it requires both skills. Full stop. There is no need to remove buzzer speed. Otherwise, you could just hand out a printed quiz to the contestants at the start and at the end of the half hour have them graded. Pure knowledge, very “fair” and boring as shit. . ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/323 "2019-05-12T21:36:18Z")
> [@Paxx](#): > > Who are the “we” that you’re referring to and what’s with the “should” and “shouldn’t”? Society? People having a not-very-consequential conversation on the message board? I was responding to the poster who mentioned the NFL and seemed to dislike the idea of making games more fair. > [@](#): > > Have you contacted the producers and let them know how they can make more money by following your suggestions? This feels like an appeal to authority couched in a slightly condescending way. Apologies if I misinterpreted, but that’s what you were going for, right? Note that it’s also a bit of a shifting of the goalposts. I haven’t argued that this change would make the producers of Jeopardy more money. I… have no idea if it would do that? I think it probably wouldn’t, since as mentioned earlier people going on big runs like this make people excited about Jeopardy, and this change would likely result in shorter runs by removing some of the returning champion’s advantage. But surely you don’t think that every change to Jeopardy should be judged solely by its impact on revenues, right? > [@Lucas Jackson](#): > > The current buzzer system hasn’t always been as it is. This is where it has been refined to. I was not aware of that. Can you point me to more info? > [@](#): > > Are you also suspicious of people who think cross-country skiing is an important part of the biathlon but that we shouldn’t increase its value? A little, although certainly less than in the case of Jeopardy. I think the difference is that the biathlon is unabashedly a blend of two skills. No one would describe it as “a shooting” competition" or “a skiing competition”. It’s clearly both. Skiing and shooting are both essential to it. I think that Jeopardy is quite different. The way the buzzer rewards reaction time seems like a weird side effect more than an essential part of the competition. You may disagree with this, but I’m clearly not alone in this feeling. > [@](#): > > Otherwise, you could just hand out a printed quiz to the contestants at the start and at the end of the half hour have them graded. Pure knowledge, very “fair” and boring as shit. I absolutely agree, and I have pointed out in this thread to several others that some other proposed changes would make for bad TV. I don’t think my proposed change does, though. Think of it this way: if Jeopardy implemented my rules change, how many viewers could even tell that anything changed? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/324 "2019-05-12T21:57:53Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > No, it appears to be an original idea, and a very good one at that. Thank you, although I can’t take credit for the basic idea, which comes for market design attempts to limit the influence of high speed trading. If you think about it, they’re solving a similar sort of problem. They want to incentivize quick trades for people with new information that affects price, because that’s how the market remains liquid, but they _don’t_ want to incentivize the massive arms race in faster communications so you can beat out the other traders by 0.0000001 seconds. So what they do is treat all orders that happen within some fairly small threshold of each other as happening at the same time and use other methods to determine which ones get filled. And it works pretty well. The markets are still very liquid, and no one wastes huge amounts of money trying to eke out slightly faster comms. With Jeopardy, if you want to incentivize knowing the answers quickly, but you _don’t_ want to incentivize being able to press a button slightly faster than other humans, well, this is a great way to do that with minimal impact on everything else. Anyway, it’s an idea. It’s not perfect, it might not even be better, but it’s pretty well targeted at the thing that I think is not great about Jeopardy. I’ve taken up enough of your thread, so I’ll let anyone who wants to point out other flaws in it have the last word. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/325 "2019-05-12T22:03:02Z")
“In the early days of the show, contestants could ring in at any time and that led to a lot of quick guesses, negative scores and general confusion.” From the horses mouth: > **[How Does the Jeopardy! Buzzer Work? | J!Buzz | Jeopardy.com](https://www.jeopardy.com/jbuzz/behind-scenes/how-does-jeopardy-buzzer-work)** > > Jeopardy! contestants are known for their ability to access a seemingly limitless amount of information at lightning speed, but having the reflexes to ring in at the proper time – and ahead of your competitors – is what makes Jeopardy! a game.... Also: “Hopefully, it helps them to relax a bit,\*\* knowing that lightning reflexes and flexible thumbs are just as important\*\* to the game as having staggering amounts of knowledge about a vast array of subjects.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/326 "2019-05-12T22:57:33Z")
I think that if you have a different idea about how best to run a quiz show, it’d be best to create a new quiz show that uses that different idea, and leave Jeopardy alone. Yeah, Jeopardy is a bit of an 800-pound gorilla, but there have been many other trivia shows that have run concurrently with it (Who Wants to be a Millionaire, The Chase, Win Ben Stein’s Money, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/327 "2019-05-20T01:40:45Z")
Are the Teachers done and Holzhauer back tomorrow? Anyone still going to watch? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/328 "2019-05-20T02:29:20Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Are the Teachers done and Holzhauer back tomorrow? > > Anyone still going to watch? Yes and yes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/329 "2019-05-20T08:55:45Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I wasn’t, but only because I found out his age when I was on the show last year. > > Johnny Gilbert entertains the audience between games, while Alex is changing his suit and the next batch of contestants is getting ready to go on. He had stories about announcing for _The Price is Right_. I’m talking about the original, black-and-white _Prince is Right_, hosted by Bill Cullen. How many folks here even remember Bill Cullen? Gawd, I thought his only game show connection was as a panelist on _To Tell the Truth_… ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/330 "2019-05-20T09:20:17Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > “In the early days of the show, contestants could ring in at any time and that led to a lot of quick guesses, negative scores and general confusion.” > > From the horses mouth: > [How Does the Jeopardy! Buzzer Work? | J!Buzz | Jeopardy.com](https://www.jeopardy.com/jbuzz/behind-scenes/how-does-jeopardy-buzzer-work) > > Also: > “Hopefully, it helps them to relax a bit,\*\* knowing that lightning reflexes and flexible thumbs are just as important\*\* to the game as having staggering amounts of knowledge about a vast array of subjects.” I remember there were a couple of times way back when there were only 2 people on final jeopardy because people were minus at the end and I think only one guy was left once or twice but he had to go through it anyways to see how much he was going to carry over for the enxt show … … ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/331 "2019-05-20T12:22:21Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Are the Teachers done and Holzhauer back tomorrow? > > Anyone still going to watch? Yes! It resumes tonight. Finally. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/332 "2019-05-20T12:47:17Z")
Planet money did an [episode](https://www.npr.org/2019/05/10/722198188/episode-912-how-uncle-jamie-broke-jeopardy)on James Holzhauer. It was by Kenny Malone who is a brother in law (I think?) to James. They talk to Jennings, Roger Craig, and Holzhauer. They discuss most of the tactics mentioned here, but it is couched in a competition of who is the cooler uncle. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/333 "2019-05-20T13:37:15Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Are the Teachers done and Holzhauer back tomorrow? > > Anyone still going to watch? Is James good or bad for ratings? Seems like this would be easy to confirm. (I think the answer is Good.) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/334 "2019-05-21T00:31:53Z")
Well, James did win again. If he kept winning at the same rate, for the same 74 games Jennings played, he would have more than twice the money Jennings did, and that would not count tournament winnings. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/335 "2019-05-21T02:06:34Z")
From what I saw, it looked like the competitors finally tried to get to the higher paying squares first. Not that it affected the final scores any. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/336 "2019-05-21T03:26:46Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Is there a reason we shouldn’t try to make games better or more fair? > > I understand the people who think that this change will make the game worse. I disagree, but it’s a matter of opinion. > > I’m not sure I understand the argument that it’s bad to try to improve games. The rules of games change over time. Ideally, they change in a way that makes them better in some way. This is a change that I think will make Jeopardy better (in the sense that Jeopardy is a trivia contest, so removing aspects of the game that influence winning that aren’t based on trivia is an improvement). > > Like, imagine (although it’s silly) that instead of pressing a button in your hand, you had to sprint across the studio to hit the button. Obviously, being able to sprint quickly would be a part of the game. And I can imagine people saying, hey, Sprint-Jeopardy is both a physical and mental challenge. People can practice answering questions, but they’ve also got to be in peak physical shape. And, honestly, from a certain perspective, the running/trivia biathlon actually seems like kind of a cool contest. Well-rounded dominance. Maybe there _should_ be more of a physical component. Maybe a game that was half Jeopardy and half American Gladiators would be an even better game show! > > Is anyone actually making that argument for Jeopardy? Do you really like that “pressing a button quickly after a light comes on” is a valuable part of the contest? Should we make reaction time _more_ relevant, or does Jeopardy have the exact correct balance of reaction time/trivia knowledge? > > I am pretty suspicious of a claim that reaction time should be part of the contest, but that we shouldn’t increase its value; it’s exactly the right amount right now. Sounds like just status quo bias. Hear, hear. > [@Fleetwood](#): > > All the posters who want to make Jeopardy ‘fairer’ remind me of Peter King and his ilk wringing their hands over making NFL overtime ‘fairer’. First it was if the team that wins the coin toss, gains 20-30 yards (depending on the kick-off return) and kicks a field goal, they win. This was seen as unfair to the loser of the coin toss. The rule was changed so that the initial possession must result in a touchdown for the winner of the coin toss to win. Now, if a team wins the coin toss, drives for a touchdown and wins the game, it is seen as unfair to the loser of the coin toss, as they never got to possess the ball. When will it end? How about when both teams have the chance to possess? I would actually like to see them do something more like in college football. Anyway, I don’t see the problem with trying to make games better by tweaking the rules. As you have indicated, the NFL does this with some frequency, and they are obviously very successful. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/337 "2019-05-21T10:37:18Z")
Are they supposed to whack Holzhauer with a stupid stick? That’s the only thing that will slow him down. Once in awhile, a very smart person with fast reflexes gets on Jeopardy. They’ll dominate the game until they make a dumb mistake. The pressure gets to them and their concentration slips. It’ll happen to Holzhauer eventually. I’m going to enjoy his incredible run while it lasts. He’s still weeks away from challenging Jennings 74-game winning streak. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/338 "2019-05-21T12:12:21Z")
The challengers need to get the Daily Doubles before James does if they have any hope of beating him. Or he needs to mispronounce a few answers… ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/339 "2019-05-21T13:30:16Z")
He bet $40,000 on Final Jeopardy. Is that a record? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696/340 "2019-05-21T15:16:16Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > He bet $40,000 on Final Jeopardy. Is that a record? It would be, except he bet $60,013 on his 10th game. Previous record was $38,314 (also by James). Before that it was $34,000 by Austin Rogers. Also, his **average** score is now over $77k, which was the previous single game record. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jeopardy-thread-was-james-holzhauer-contains-spoilers/832696.md?page=18)