# The Jews and Romans Killed Jesus. Why Is That Bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 27, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-and-romans-killed-jesus-why-is-that-bad/231491 "2004-02-27T17:28:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![xcheopis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bc8723/32.png) [@xcheopis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xcheopis)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-and-romans-killed-jesus-why-is-that-bad/231491/41 "2004-03-02T07:34:09Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#): > > Right on the money, Jack. God sent his son to be the perfect and ultimate sacrifice. Jesus had to be killed in order for the plan to come together. No, he didn’t. If mercy had been shown, then there would have been a different plan of action; maybe more wonderful than the resurrection. Turns out Plan B wasn’t needed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_B.Goode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Johnny\_B.Goode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_B.Goode)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-and-romans-killed-jesus-why-is-that-bad/231491/42 "2004-03-02T15:08:52Z")
> [@xcheopis](#): > > No, he didn’t. If mercy had been shown, then there would have been a different plan of action; maybe more wonderful than the resurrection. > > Turns out Plan B wasn’t needed. The thing is, if you accept that the Judeo-Christian God is omniscient (all knowing), then he never needs a Plan B because he already knows what is going to happen. The thing I never understood is, knowing that Jesus was going to be killed in the way he was and knowing also that Jesus is the embodiment of God himself and thus is immortal, how much of a sacrifice is the crucifixion for Jesus/God? This is just my opinion, but the resurrection (and indeed the deity-status of Jesus) trivialises the magnitude of the sacrifice. Just what is the sacrifice anyway if you are going to be resurrected and you’re immortal anyway? Is the sacrifice in the physical pain? Is it in the removal from our physical world? Aren’t those just choices if you’re THE ominpotent God? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-and-romans-killed-jesus-why-is-that-bad/231491/43 "2004-03-02T18:06:04Z")
> [@Johnny B. Goode](#): > > The thing I never understood is, knowing that Jesus was going to be killed in the way he was and knowing also that Jesus is the embodiment of God himself and thus is immortal, how much of a sacrifice is the crucifixion for Jesus/God? This is just my opinion, but the resurrection (and indeed the deity-status of Jesus) trivialises the magnitude of the sacrifice. Just what is the sacrifice anyway if you are going to be resurrected and you’re immortal anyway? Is the sacrifice in the physical pain? Is it in the removal from our physical world? Aren’t those just choices if you’re THE ominpotent God? Rational analysis only goes so far in thinking about this sort of stuff. That said, Jesus is considered to be **wholly** human as well as wholly divine. So Jesus the man suffered and died every bit as much as any other human would. And it was Jesus the man who was resurrected. One way to look at it is as God choosing to live as a man, among men. At the same time, God produced in Jesus His son, and allowed His son to suffer and die for the sake of mankind. God giving up His son, and Jesus giving up his life, are true sacrifices just as they would be for any of us. Although God is omnipotent, He does not choose to micromanage every detail of the universe. Natural events occur, good and bad. Humans are free to make choices, good or bad. God has done his part, but he leaves us to do ours as well. To fully embrace all of this, there comes a point where one has to go beyond intellect and move into faith. It never will all make sense to the human mind. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_B.Goode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Johnny\_B.Goode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_B.Goode)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-and-romans-killed-jesus-why-is-that-bad/231491/44 "2004-03-02T18:24:05Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > Rational analysis only goes so far in thinking about this sort of stuff. That said, Jesus is considered to be **wholly** human as well as wholly divine. So Jesus the man suffered and died every bit as much as any other human would. And it was Jesus the man who was resurrected. One way to look at it is as God choosing to live as a man, among men. At the same time, God produced in Jesus His son, and allowed His son to suffer and die for the sake of mankind. God giving up His son, and Jesus giving up his life, are true sacrifices just as they would be for any of us. But God isn’t giving up his son, at least not in the same way that I would be giving up my children if I let them be killed because God knows that he can do whatever he wants, including resurrecting him and letting him ascend to heaven and promising his second coming. I wouldn’t be able to do any of that. To me, the whole “God choosing to live as a man, among men” thing sounds not too different from me choosing to be a paladin in Baldur’s Gate. What is really at stake for God? Especially if, before he even sets out on the coming of Christ episode, he already knows the outcome? > [@](#): > > Although God is omnipotent, He does not choose to micromanage every detail of the universe. Natural events occur, good and bad. Humans are free to make choices, good or bad. God has done his part, but he leaves us to do ours as well. This is entirely another issue (nested hjiacks) but if God already knows the everything that is going to happen inclduing who is going to be saved and who isn’t (ie. predetermination/predestination), do we really have choices? Or do we just think we have choices? If it is all predetermined, is God just watching us play out a script of his? If so, why should we be so happy about it? > [@](#): > > To fully embrace all of this, there comes a point where one has to go beyond intellect and move into faith. It never will all make sense to the human mind. I’m not going to call this a cop out but let’s just deal with what we do understand and with rationality and logic as we know it. I don’t see faith and intellect as mutually exclusive or independent in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-and-romans-killed-jesus-why-is-that-bad/231491/45 "2004-03-02T21:00:12Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > Rational analysis only goes so far in thinking about this sort of stuff. Tell me about it…God needed to sacrifice himself, _to_ himself, to allow himself to change a law he made himself? Sure, maybe it happened. But it could just as easily be the after-the-fact rationalization of a cult who’s leader got killed. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-and-romans-killed-jesus-why-is-that-bad/231491.md?page=2)