# "The Jews killed Arafat!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155 "2004-11-22T19:33:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/61 "2004-11-23T05:44:04Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > What exactly does the word “current” mean to you? I understand now. The past doesn’t matter. So anything before today is gone right? The bombs Israel has dropped in the middle of busy streets don’t count. The assassination squads the the sent out that killed the wrong people. pfft. They don’t count either. Geez people. My only gripe is my tax dollars pay for all these deaths. And y’all think its ok. May God have mercy on your souls. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/62 "2004-11-23T05:44:07Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I am no defender of Arafat. > > Of course he was a terrorist. > > But why is there only one side of the story on this board? No sides, I’m coming into the middle of the arguement here. When I see you arguing with fine posters like **FinnAgain** and **Dropzone** I wonder wtf is going on, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/63 "2004-11-23T05:53:08Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I understand now. > The past doesn’t matter. The past does matter, it simply does not matter when we’re talking about **current** practices. > [@Reeder](#): > > So anything before today is gone right? No, anything which has transpired in the past is still very much real, but I believe we were discussing how the Palestinians **target** civilians. > [@Reeder](#): > > The bombs Israel has dropped in the middle of busy streets don’t count. Unfortunately the situation is very difficult. Send in troops, and you have a Jenin style problem on your hands. When you have to kill terrorists, missiles are your best bet. I am, however, unfamiliar with the claim of the IDF dropping bombs in busy streets for a purpose other than hitting a terrorist. If you provide me with a cite I will provide you with condemnation of the IDF in that instance. > [@Reeder](#): > > The assassination squads the the sent out that killed the wrong people. Again, I am unfamiliar with this. If you provide a cite, I will condemn the action. I will, however, support the policy of targeted killings of terrorists. > [@Reeder (bolding mine)](#): > > My **only gripe** is my tax dollars pay for all these deaths. > And y’all think its ok. So your only gripe is that we pay for it? Jeez, your moral outrage doesn’t go too deep, does it? > [@Reeder](#): > > May God have mercy on your souls. Leave your invisible friend out of this. 😉 P.S. On preview: **World Eater** Thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/64 "2004-11-23T05:56:21Z")
Unfortunately the situation is very difficult. Send in troops, and you have a Jenin style problem on your hands. When you have to kill terrorists, missiles are your best bet. Ahh… Collateral damage. To hell with civilians as long as we get the target. I bet you just love our Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/65 "2004-11-23T05:59:35Z")
So your only gripe is that we pay for it? Jeez, your moral outrage doesn’t go too deep, does it? This whole thing started out about tax dollars. Then you and yours jumped to Israels defence. I guess the USS Liberty means nothing to you and your ilk does it. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/66 "2004-11-23T06:00:57Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > P.S. On preview: **World Eater** Thank you very much. No, _thank you_ for bringing some sanity to this place. There are some people that just _get it_, and you my friend are at the top of that list. **Reeder** can get a bit crazy sometimes, but his heart is in the right place. We all need to stick together. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/67 "2004-11-23T06:01:33Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Ahh… > Collateral damage. > To hell with civilians as long as we get the target. Minimize civilians deaths whenever possible. But when an organized ring of terrorists orchestrates the murder of hundreds of your civilians, and then deliberately makes its HQ in residential areas, you have limited options. Not responding is not an option. Sending in troops is not an option. Unfortunately collateral damage become unavoidable. > [@Reeder](#): > > I bet you just love our Iraq war. **Reeder** : You should know better. I’ve posted in threads that you were in about Iraq, if you are unaware of my position, check those threads. The situations are also not equal. Iraq did not attack us. Iraq was not a threat to us. Iraq did not target our civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/68 "2004-11-23T06:06:33Z")
You are saying Israel doesn’t attack civilians? Give me a break. Do me a favor. I have to go to bed. Should have a long time ago. But do some research for me. Find how many Israeli civilians have died and how palestinians civilians have died. Compare the two numbers. Then if you think I’m still in the wrong. Let me have it. Be safe my friend. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/69 "2004-11-23T06:10:51Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. > > If my country had been taken from me by mandate… > > Then I’d be a “terrorist” too. > > Wouldn’t you? > > Of course you wouldn’t. > > Fighting for your country is a bad thing. I wouldn’t disrupt the Olympics and murder innocent athletes. I wouldn’t hijack planes and murder innocent civilians. I wouldn’t throw old men in wheelchairs off boats. I wouldn’t steal a billion dollars. I wouldn’t tell little children the only children solution was to kill themselves and murder people at a pizza parlor. Fuck you for even remotely defending Mr. Arafat. Do all of us liberals a favor and become a Republican. Aw forget I actually like some Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/70 "2004-11-23T06:15:13Z")
Fuck you for even remotely defending Mr. Arafat. Do all of us liberals a favor and become a Republican. I hate to disappoint you… But I’m not a democrat. If you were familiar with my posts you’d know that though. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/71 "2004-11-23T06:33:49Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > You are saying Israel doesn’t attack civilians? Give me a break. What does the word “target” mean to you? > [@Reeder](#): > > But do some research for me. > Find how many Israeli civilians have died and how palestinians civilians have died. > Compare the two numbers. > Then if you think I’m still in the wrong. > Let me have it. No need. Like I said, I’m aware of the facts about the region. More Palestinians have died than Israelis. I will also point out that the Palestinians have a policy of paying/encouraging children and civilians to take part in violent protests. So it’s not like they don’t bear some responsibility for it. [here is a partisan cite which you probably won’t put too much stock in](http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp441.htm) [But here’s one with quotes from the other side](http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18773) > [@](#): > > “There is no doubt that a child [martyr] suggests that the new generation will carry on the mission with determination,” said the Mufti, appointed by Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat. "The younger the martyr, the greater and the more I respect him. … [Or how about this? (you don’t even need to read the article) notice all those ‘civilians’ next to the guy with the machine gun?](http://www.betar.co.uk/articles/betar1059578683.php) > [@Reeder](#): > > Be safe my friend. You too. If you need me to kick you around some more on this topic, just let me know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/72 "2004-11-23T07:07:41Z")
Sorry I missed some of this, juggling this thread with an IM conversation, yeesh! > [@Reeder](#): > > I am no defender of Arafat. > Of course he was a terrorist. > [@Reeder](#): > > One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. > If my country had been taken from me by mandate… > Then I’d be a “terrorist” too. Jeez, I wonder how anybody ever might’ve possibly thought you were defending Arafat. I, for one, am stumped. > [@Reeder](#): > > This whole thing started out about tax dollars. > Then you and yours jumped to Israels defence. > I guess the USS Liberty means nothing to you and your ilk does it. [It started about tax dollars, then I pointed out that you had a very weird slant to your perception](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5528459&postcount=52) And, [The USS Liberty was attacked in '67.](http://ussliberty.org/index.html) And, to prempt you, no, I do not discard it or place no blame on Israel, I will note that it is not A) current B) relevant to the second Intifada. > [@World Eater](#): > > No, thank you for bringing some sanity to this place. There are some people that just get it, and you my friend are at the top of that list. > **Reeder** can get a bit crazy sometimes, but his heart is in the right place. > We all need to stick together. Awwww shucks… ~shuffles feet~ tweren’t nuthin’ It’s actually sorta odd, I’ve agreed with **Reeder** on a good few of his recent posts in other threads. It’s just that he’s wrong in this instance. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/73 "2004-11-23T07:17:06Z")
One final thing as I’ve got a paper to write that’s due at noon tomorrow: [another partisan cite but with refrences to US findings on the Liberty.](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/liberty2.html) ---
**Author:** ![teleute12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@teleute12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teleute12)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/74 "2004-11-23T07:58:56Z")
Reeder, shut the hell up so we can go back to the jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/75 "2004-11-23T10:41:35Z")
Wow. This thread went from really funny to really pathetic really fast. I usually try to avoid these debates - life, after all, is much too short - but as a Doper I feel the need to correct erronious facts whenever I encounter them. It’s a burden, I know. > [@Reeder](#): > > We fund 90% of Israel’s military. > > … > > Hell…we gave Israel armored humvees before we gave them to our own troops. The Israeli military budget is [$9.11 Billion.](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html). U.S. military aid (75% of which must be spent on American-made hardware) is [less than $2.4 Billion.](http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=155168&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y). Closer to 25% than 90%. A lot, to be sure, but even without it Israel is currently the second most powerful military force in the Middle East (after the U.S., of course). As for the Humvees, I’m pretty sure the armor was added on after delivery; Israel has a long history of tinkering with foreign-made hardware. And even if I’m wrong, all it means is that the U.S. military neglected to order them for its troops - I mean, it’s not as if they cost that much - which is their failing, not ours. There is not a finite number of armored Hummers to go around, you know. If there had been a shortage and the U.S. military had wanted them they would have gotten dibs. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/76 "2004-11-23T12:56:06Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > There are more obscure toxins in heaven and earth, **Left Hand of Dorkness** , than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Nuh uh. I know there are obscure toxins. I addressed this in my first post: what doesn’t exist is the perfect **crime**. It’s a cost/benefit equation. Arafat was going to die soon anyway, so the benefit to poisoning him would’ve been marginal. The risk of being discovered in an attempt, whether successful or not, is that Arafat would be immortalized as a martyr. Israel may be brutal toward the Palestinians, but the country’s government isn’t stupid. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/77 "2004-11-23T13:20:02Z")
Is it possible that Arafat had advanced AIDS? There are several credible reports (one from the Rumanian Secret Police) that Arafat led a very active homosexual sex life. The old goat was (from several accounts) quite promiscuous. Have the French released any detailed pathology reports? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/78 "2004-11-23T13:59:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > - but as a Doper I feel the need to correct erronious facts whenever I encounter them. > … I don’t. p.s. Hang in there **Reeder**. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/79 "2004-11-23T14:10:34Z")
Arafat was actually poisoned by the United Parcel Service. They don’t wear those brown shirts for nuthin’. I hate the UPS, and this is a golden opportunity to pin something on them. So don’t go correcting me with none of yer facts, **Alessan**. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155/80 "2004-11-23T14:21:45Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Arafat was actually poisoned by the United Parcel Service. You think? And here I thought he was FedExed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jews-killed-arafat/276155.md?page=5)