# The John Edwards Indictment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 3, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211 "2011-06-03T16:42:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/41 "2011-06-05T16:27:41Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > It’s the giver who pays the federal gift tax, not the recipient. That doesn’t answer jtgain’s question, it glosses over the fact Edward’s wealthy benefactor has a tax liability and more importantly, Edwards himself is on the hook for the amount of money over the $26K limit that he, as middle man, “gifted” the mother of his child in the form of hush money. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/42 "2011-06-05T16:27:45Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Mark Sanford meanwhile Bill Clinton is very popular as ex-President. Clinton only nearly got impeached. Or was that before your time? The case went on month after month , exacerbating the humility and then keeping it high as long as possible. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/43 "2011-06-05T18:24:46Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Clinton only nearly got impeached. Or was that before your time? Except your claim was that "But it is the cover up that kills your career. Lie to the people and when they find out you are done. That assumes you are a Democrat. The Repubs can get away with it. " Now, it’s hard to have a political career (ie, in office) after 2 terms as president, but Clinton seems to be doing very well for himself. Not that I expect you to ever admit making a mistake, but just correcting things for the record. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/44 "2011-06-05T19:17:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Except your claim was that "But it is the cover up that kills your career. Lie to the people and when they find out you are done. > That assumes you are a Democrat. The Repubs can get away with it. " > > Now, it’s hard to have a political career (ie, in office) after 2 terms as president, but Clinton seems to be doing very well for himself. Not that I expect you to ever admit making a mistake, but just correcting things for the record. Some presidents have gone for court appointments and run for office after they were done being president. That was not an option for him. The Repubs have a long line of whore mongers and perverts and covered up gays that kept their seats. Presidents now have an option of well paid speaking tours . they go around the world getting big bucks. From Craig to Vitter, the Repubs just stay in office. But nowadays, the Tea Baggers have thrown a monkey wrench in the Repub machinery. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/45 "2011-06-05T19:18:01Z")
On the issue of whether or not this was an illegal campaign contribution because of how it was used, nobody’s disputing the money was given to Edwards, who was a political candidate. I’m assuming there must be some bribery issue. Even if there’s no specific quid pro quo, wouldn’t it be illegal if somebody just wanted to give a Congressman or Governor (or a candidate for office) a “gift” of ten thousand dollars? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/46 "2011-06-05T19:45:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > On the issue of whether or not this was an illegal campaign contribution because of how it was used, nobody’s disputing the money was given to Edwards, who was a political candidate. Not true. Edwards never touched the money. The issue is that, according to the government, it was a campaign contribution (because it was made to advance his campaign and, perhaps, with his knowledge) that violated finance and disclosure laws. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Some presidents have gone for court appointments and run for office after they were done being president. Only one president has been elected to another federal office after leaving the White House, and that was John Q. Adams 150 years ago. Only one president has been appointed to the Supreme Court, and that was Taft 90 years ago. Neither was going to happen to Clinton regardless of impeachment. The scandal did make a difference in that it hurt Gore in 2000, but it didn’t hurt Clinton much. It might have hurt him more if the Republicans hadn’t overplayed their hand so badly. In any case Clinton hasn’t held any other offices, but he wasn’t going to anyway, and his speaking engagements and biography made him a very, very rich man. > [@](#): > > From Craig to Vitter, the Repubs just stay in office. The Republicans tried to pressure Craig into quitting, but since he was not running for re-election anyway, they couldn’t do much of anything to him. He served out his term (like Clinton) and remains a laughing stock (unlike Clinton). Mark Sanford did the same thing: he was term-limited out of office anyway, and he killed any ambition he had for the presidency or a VP spot, but they couldn’t do very much to make him quit, so he stayed in office and served out his term. To mention a counterexample, Rep. Chris Lee resigned after he put those shirtless photos of himself on Craigslist. Vitter survived his prostitution scandal, but then again, he’s from Louisiana. They’re not known for being prudes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/47 "2011-06-05T21:13:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Not true. Edwards never touched the money. That seems like a minor point if the money was being requested by him and paid to somebody on his behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/48 "2011-06-05T21:16:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Only one president has been elected to another federal office after leaving the White House, and that was John Q. Adams 150 years ago. Andrew Johnson was elected to the Senate in 1874. Or are you referring to the fact that this was before Senators were directly elected? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/49 "2011-06-05T21:21:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That seems like a minor point if the money was being requested by him and paid to somebody on his behalf. And that it may be. But you said “Nobody’s disputing the money was given to Edwards.” In fact I don’t think the government has said the money was given to Edwards. The case hinges on the fact that the money was given on his behalf. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Andrew Johnson was elected to the Senate in 1874. Or are you referring to the fact that this was before Senators were directly elected? It slipped my mind. Whether or not it really counts for purposes of this discussion, Bill Clinton was not going to run for Congress or sit on the Supreme Court even if he had never been impeached. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/50 "2011-06-05T21:55:31Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Some presidents have gone for court appointments and run for office after they were done being president. That was not an option for him. > The Repubs have a long line of whore mongers and perverts and covered up gays that kept their seats. > Presidents now have an option of well paid speaking tours . they go around the world getting big bucks. > > From Craig to Vitter, the Repubs just stay in office. But nowadays, the Tea Baggers have thrown a monkey wrench in the Repub machinery. Since \*\*Marley \*\*already debunked that nonsense, I’ll just ask (rhetorically): Do you never tire of being proven wrong on this MB? Does the experience never humble you into being more careful about what post? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/51 "2011-06-06T04:33:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Since \*\*Marley \*\*already debunked that nonsense, I’ll just ask (rhetorically): Do you never tire of being proven wrong on this MB? Does the experience never humble you into being more careful about what post? Gees MACE, I would love to admit I was wrong except. John Quincy Adams ran and won a seat in the House William Howard Taft got a seat on the Supreme Court Now after you apologize, we can go on. I could also list the ones that ran for a seat and lost. Do I need to do that for you? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/52 "2011-06-06T05:11:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And that it may be. But you said “Nobody’s disputing the money was given to Edwards.” In fact I don’t think the government has said the money was given to Edwards. The case hinges on the fact that the money was given on his behalf. A hypothetical scenario. You’re running for Congress. I’m a local businessman in your district. I decide you’re a wonderful human being who deserves some good fortune so I go to your bank and pay off the ten years remaining on your mortgage. Now I didn’t directly give you any money. But I obviously gave somebody money on your behalf. And I haven’t asked for any specific favor but it’s fair to assume you’re going to be well disposed to me after what I did and will have a concern about my interests if you win office. Are you saying this would be legal? Making this even more questionable, Edwards (or his representatives) apparently contacted contributors and asked them to give money to Hunter on his behalf. Getting back to my hypothetical scenario, this would be like you calling me up and suggesting it would be nice of me to pay off your mortgage. Again, how could that be legal? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/53 "2011-06-06T11:33:01Z")
There were reports last week that Edwards didn’t plead guilty because the government wanted him to give up his law license, but today it’s being reported that the talks actually fell apart because the government wanted him to spend six months in prison if he plead guilty. That’s harsh but it also makes it seem like there’s room in between his lawyers’ position and the government’s. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Now I didn’t directly give you any money. But I obviously gave somebody money on your behalf. And I haven’t asked for any specific favor but it’s fair to assume you’re going to be well disposed to me after what I did and will have a concern about my interests if you win office. Are you saying this would be legal? I don’t want to pretend I know more about bribery and campaign finance laws than I do. But on its face, I don’t know that it’s illegal. It looks crooked and maybe it’s influence peddling, but if I give you money and hope you will do something for me later, that’s not the same thing as giving you money in exchange for your doing something on my behalf. The second one is bribery, the first one might not be. Anyway my earlier point was that you said the money was given _to_ Edwards. It was given _on behalf of_ Edwards. If the $925,000 was given directly to his campaign and then paid to Hunter, this would be an open and shut violation of campaign finance laws. Because it was given to Hunter by the two donors, the government is arguing about the motivation behind the gifts. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Gees MACE, I would love to admit I was wrong except. I already dealt with this yesterday afternoon. Your hypothetical is unrealistic and it was not going to happen for Clinton. He never gave the slightest hint he was interested. It’s ridiculous to argue Clinton might have run for Congress or been named to the Supreme Court because one president was elected to the House in the 1830s and one was named to the Supreme Court in the 1920s. It wasn’t going to happen. There’s no reason to believe Clinton ever would have thought about it, so there is no point in your picking two outdated examples to support your story. John Quincy Adams was a member of Congress before he became president. Clinton wasn’t. Taft was a federal judge before he became president, and Clinton wasn’t. And a few things have changed in politics in the last 90 to 180 years. If he hadn’t been impeached, Clinton’s jobs would not be that different. I guess advising the Gore administration would have curtailed his speaking gigs the same way his wife’s appointment to Secretary of State has. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/54 "2011-06-06T16:44:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Sounds like a universal defense. Or not. Since the lower courts handle all of John Roberts’ balls-and-strikes cases, it’s neither a universal defense nor no defense at all. The point is that there ARE gray areas of the law that even the wisest solons of our land come to different conclusions about, which is why we need a court system in the first place, and can’t replace it with the equivalent of a robotic plate umpire. Accordingly, to say that conduct in such a gray area can be construed as a “knowing and willful violation” of the law seems absurd on its face. But if you rob a convenience store, you’re not remotely in any gray area, and this defense doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/55 "2011-06-06T20:44:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I am never surprised when a married politician gets caught with women. There are a lot of beautiful women throwing themselves at pols. The pols are ego driven people who are competitive and like to conquer opponents. History has shown they also conquer women. It is difficult to find a pol who does not mess around. > But it is the cover up that kills your career. Lie to the people and when they find out you are done. > That assumes you are a Democrat. The Repubs can get away with it. I give you Weiner! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/56 "2011-06-06T22:16:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I give you Weiner! What do you mean by that? I don’t want your weiner. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/57 "2011-06-06T23:30:11Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What do you mean by that? I don’t want your weiner. [Relevant Pit Thread about the likely soon to be ex-Congress Critter](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=611413) ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211/58 "2011-06-07T01:36:37Z")
Grover Cleveland was elected president after leaving the White House. That was a special case though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-john-edwards-indictment/584211.md?page=2)