# The khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi Jewry **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 15, 2026, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860 "2026-10-15T17:21:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/41 "2026-10-16T02:25:06Z")
I think almost all American liberal Jews believe, or at least used to believe, that it was wonderful that Israel existed as a safe place for Jewish refugees. But we/they have no desire to go live there themselves, nor do they believe that they had any binding religious obligation to do so. I am glad that Israel exists, but I believe that the USA is the best place in the world to be Jewish. (Also, as has been mentioned in this thread, if you can reliably trace your ancestry back to a German Jew who was killed or exiled during the Nazi era, the Germans will be more than happy to give you citizenship, as well they should) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/42 "2026-10-16T10:28:37Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > (Also, as has been mentioned in this thread, if you can reliably trace your ancestry back to a German Jew who was killed or exiled during the Nazi era, the Germans will be more than happy to give you citizenship, as well they should) For better or worse the German in my family was not at all Jewish, that’s the Catholic side of the family. I’m a descendant of Russian Jews. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I believe that the USA is the best place in the world to be Jewish. So do I. So, as far as I know, did my paternal grandparents and great-grandparents. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/43 "2026-10-16T10:30:11Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I think almost all American liberal Jews believe, or at least used to believe, that it was wonderful that Israel existed as a safe place for Jewish refugees It’s important to note that Israelis don’t really think that way any more, either. We’re a country, not a project, and we exist for the same reasons any other country does. So we’ll help diaspora Jews if they’re in need - but while we’re here for you, we’re not here FOR you, if you catch my drift. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/44 "2026-10-16T10:51:32Z")
I think most of the Americans thinking Israel is a “project” or that it’s anything other than a country like other countries are the evangelical Christians with an Armageddon fetish. Who are no friends of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/45 "2026-10-16T11:26:08Z")
Absolutely; but you also have their counterparts from the other end of the horseshoe, who say they’re against “Zionism” and argue that Israel “isn’t a real country.” It’s a wild world of assholes out there. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/46 "2026-10-16T11:47:37Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > The only version of Zionism that this theory would discredit is a gross “blood and soil” version that holds that someone’s right to occupy a piece of land today depends on how closely they are genetically related to the people who occupied it at some arbitrary time in the past. Which is so fundamentally stupid that the fact that the theory is also objectively wrong is almost beside the point. Yes. That’s why i don’t see the connection between the Khazar theory and antisemitism. I think it was mostly just an interesting theory that proved false. For someone like me, whose entire family looks obviously European, all fair, mostly blue-eyed, and with lots of red heads, and slavic features, it’s a more romantic back-story than “lots of your great-great … grandmothers were raped by Cossacks”. And because conversion is a legitimate thing, it doesn’t make my family any less Jewish. The rape theory (which is likely the truth) actually does weaken our connection to Judaism a little. But i think @Alessan has the main point: > [@Alessan](#): > > A group of people - especially a minority group - defines itself by the things it shares: a religion, a language, a culture, a country, a history, an origin story and mythology. It’s what we are beyond just individuals. Attack those, and you attack who we are and what binds us together. If you hate a group, anything that contradicts their “official story” is a win. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/47 "2026-10-16T12:12:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > > > I believe that the USA is the best place in the world to be Jewish. > > So do I. So, as far as I know, did my paternal grandparents and great-grandparents. So was Germany, for a while. The USA probably still is; but I’ve been feeling shaky about it lately. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/48 "2026-10-16T13:38:08Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > So was Germany, for a while. > > The USA probably still is; but I’ve been feeling shaky about it lately. I, too, see the parallels and share your feelings. It bears watching. Although at present I feel my existence as an independent _woman_ is more threatened by the current maladministration than my existence as a Jewish person. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/49 "2026-10-16T14:42:25Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But it really reminds me a lot of the Predator John story. Is that the medieval legend about a guy who founded a Christian nation in Africa using only his faith in Jesus, his invisibility field, and his shoulder mounted laser canon? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/50 "2026-10-16T15:09:46Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > The only version of Zionism that this theory would discredit is a gross “blood and soil” version that holds that someone’s right to occupy a piece of land today depends on how closely they are genetically related to the people who occupied it at some arbitrary time in the past. Which is so fundamentally stupid that the fact that the theory is also objectively wrong is almost beside the point. Rastafarians are hard-core into Zionism, with an emphasis on the spiritual aspect too. Do Zionists (or anti-Zionists) try to disparage them alongside Jews? > [@Alessan](#): > > > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > > > I think almost all American liberal Jews believe, or at least used to believe, that it was wonderful that Israel existed as a safe place for Jewish refugees > > It’s important to note that Israelis don’t really think that way any more, either. We’re a country, not a project, and we exist for the same reasons any other country does. So we’ll help diaspora Jews if they’re in need - but while we’re here for you, we’re not here FOR you, if you catch my drift. Er, Israel was never marketed as a “safe place”, for anyone, was it? That’s a bit ludicrous. I know that, up to a certain point, it featured communities such as kibbutzim appealing to idealists. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/51 "2026-10-16T15:14:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > But it really reminds me a lot of the Predator John story. > > Is that the medieval legend about a guy who founded a Christian nation in Africa using only his faith in Jesus, his invisibility field, and his shoulder mounted laser canon? God fucking damn Autocorrect, that should read PRESTOR John. …but that sounds like an absolutely epic movie. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/52 "2026-10-16T15:19:37Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Er, Israel was never marketed as a “safe place”, for anyone, was it? That’s a bit ludicrous. In the context of mid-20th Century Europe? For Jews, Israel was the one place where you could be sure that the government wouldn’t start shoving you into boxcars. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/53 "2026-10-16T15:23:27Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > PRESTOR John Presbyter John. It is not clear who that is supposed to be, though; John was a pretty common name. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/54 "2026-10-16T15:25:03Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > Is that the medieval legend about a guy who founded a Christian nation in Africa using only his faith in Jesus, his invisibility field, and his shoulder mounted laser canon? > > God fucking damn Autocorrect, that should read PRESTOR John. > > …but that sounds like an absolutely epic movie. ChatGPT’s take on Predator John: [![](https://i.ibb.co/xS6kJgVb/Predator-John.png) ](https://i.ibb.co/xS6kJgVb/Predator-John.png) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/55 "2026-10-16T15:39:00Z")
Sauron, the Christian version? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/56 "2026-10-16T15:40:15Z")
That is a tiny bit unfair to countries where the government did not consist of Nazis. I have to give you, though: the USA and Canada were rounding people up and shipping them to camps, sure. You had anti-immigrant demonstrations in countries like Brazil, countries like British India (and China…) were heavily involved in the war and had their own political issues, etc. You have to look at a world map and pick something; I am not convinced that Israel was far enough away from the global action, but at least you had organized groups helping you to immigrate to British Palestine, which may already put it way ahead of other options for a lot of refugees. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/57 "2026-10-16T15:43:44Z")
On the other hand, if you were already a US citizen, the US was a great place to be. My grandfather had been on sabbatical in Germany when Hitler came to power, and cut it short to go back home. And the passover Haggadahs my grandparents used for the rest of their lives (purchased during WWII) ended with a bunch of US patriotic anthems mixed in with the Jewish songs. It is still my family custom to end the Seder with “America the Beautiful”. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/58 "2026-10-16T15:46:35Z")
I agree with Alessan’s point, though: the US was not a great or even safe place to be even if you were a citizen if you were too Japanese, too German, too Black, or too left-wing. But anything beats WW2-era Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/59 "2026-10-16T15:59:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > shoulder mounted laser canon? A vital tool for aggressive proselytizing! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860/60 "2026-10-16T16:33:49Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > That is a tiny bit unfair to countries where the government did not consist of Nazis. I It’s not so much whether they did consist of Nazis, but whether they could in the future. If it could happen in the most enlightened countries in Europe, it could happen anywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-khazar-hypothesis-of-ashkenazi-jewry/1033860.md?page=4)