# The Kill Team Photos (WARNING: EXTREMELY DISTURBING) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328 "2011-03-28T23:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/41 "2011-03-29T15:51:06Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Thanks, **Attack**. You see, **Ogre**? It’s not that hard to construct a coherent OP. I don’t give a shit about what you like or don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/42 "2011-03-29T15:57:21Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Actually, yes: " War is hell, and shit happens when you send \> 100k young men out to do almost anything." Not sure how else to construe that, which is really why I asked my question. Let me be clearer: what are you trying to argue? Actually, no. You read that into my post. If I wanted to say we shouldn’t be appalled, I would have said… we shouldn’t be appalled. Perhaps I’m not trying to argue anything more than exactly what I said: “This is one reason you don’t go to war unless you absolutely have to.” Emphasis added. I’m generally anti-war. This is one reason. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/43 "2011-03-29T16:06:13Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Hypocritical and naive? That seems like a strange way to describe beliefs and principles that are enshrined in international law defining what is acceptable behaviour during a war, and what isn’t. For example, see the Hague conventions, the Geneva conventions, International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, etc. > [@villa](#): > > See also Final Solution & Rape of Nanking, to name a couple. I’m pretty appalled by them, and if that makes me hypocritical and naive, so be it. Some 20th century rule books (Hague I was 1899, I’m calling it 20th century) don’t change thousands of years of reality any more than laws eliminate criminal behavior. Curb it? Maybe, but they don’t eliminate it and it’s naive to believe they will. “Thou shalt not kill” was even accepted with a bunch of crossed fingers. A significant portion of the population will always cotton to doing pretty awful things to other people–that, and mercy, and fear, and self-righteousness are all part of being human. Rule books overlook that. I’m not saying war attrocities are A-OK and I hope nobody got that impression. I’m just saying if you don’t like attrocities, don’t fight a war involving homo sapiens. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/44 "2011-03-29T16:09:49Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I don’t give a shit about what you like or don’t like. If you didn’t give a shit what people thought here, you wouldn’t bother to post at all. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/45 "2011-03-29T16:11:48Z")
Here is the actual quote from the RS pictorial: "According to one soldier, members of 3rd Platoon also talked about a **scenario** in which they “would throw candy out in front and in the rear of the Stryker; the Stryker would then run the children over.” Here is what you quoted: …At one point, soldiers in 3rd Platoon talked about throwing candy out of a Stryker vehicle as they drove through a village and shooting the children who came running to pick up the sweets… > [@elucidator](#): > > I refuse to believe this. No. Don’t bother with proof, never mind the glossy photos with the circles and arrows and explanations on the back of what each one means. Forget it. Nothing, up to and including an affidavit from God Almighty countersigned by the Archangel Gabriel, will convince me. Period. Full stop. > > No. Where’s the pictures of the run-over children? Shot children? I had you pegged for a worthless piece of shit. Now I’m pretty sure of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/46 "2011-03-29T16:12:38Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > If you didn’t give a shit what people thought here, you wouldn’t bother to post at all. It’s not “other people”. It’s just you. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/47 "2011-03-29T16:14:02Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I’m not saying war attrocities are A-OK and I hope nobody got that impression. I’m just saying if you don’t like attrocities, don’t fight a war involving homo sapiens. I don’t think anyone you’re talking to is fighting a war or involved in the decision making process. They can bitch about sonofabitches killing innocent people while working as a defacto representive of their government’s foreign policy and that of their allies can’t they? That’s what they are doing after all. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/48 "2011-03-29T16:14:59Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > It’s not “other people”. It’s just you. Ah, I see. Well, I think you do care, because you haven’t put me on your ignore list. Deeds, not words, dear Ogre. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/49 "2011-03-29T16:15:54Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Some 20th century rule books (Hague I was 1899, I’m calling it 20th century) don’t change thousands of years of reality any more than laws eliminate criminal behavior. Curb it? Maybe, but they don’t eliminate it and it’s naive to believe they will. “Thou shalt not kill” was even accepted with a bunch of crossed fingers. A significant portion of the population will always cotton to doing pretty awful things to other people–that, and mercy, and fear, and self-righteousness are all part of being human. Rule books overlook that. > > I’m not saying war attrocities are A-OK and I hope nobody got that impression. I’m just saying if you don’t like attrocities, don’t fight a war involving homo sapiens. It may be naive to think it won’t happen. But you didn’t say that. You said it was naive and hypocritical to be appalled by it. You didn’t just say atrocities will happen. We have fought wars without attempts at genocide, and with attempts at genocide. It can be done. And I am going to stay appalled at attempts at genocide, even while acknowledging in a world with war they may happen. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/50 "2011-03-29T16:17:45Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > I don’t think anyone you’re talking to is fighting a war or involved in the decision making process. They can bitch about sonofabitches killing innocent people while working as a defacto representive of their government’s foreign policy and that of their allies can’t they? That’s what they are doing after all. You’re right of course, I’m just screaming at cheese. My words are as useless here as theirs with that logic. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/51 "2011-03-29T16:21:31Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Ah, I see. Well, I think you do care, because you haven’t put me on your ignore list. Deeds, not words, dear Ogre. You’re absolutely right. Duly corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/52 "2011-03-29T16:22:55Z")
> [@villa](#): > > It may be naive to think it won’t happen. But you didn’t say that. You said it was naive and hypocritical to be appalled by it. You didn’t just say atrocities will happen. And you’re splitting hairs–I believe what I said can be rephrased as “If we accept war, then the appalling is acceptable. Because atrocities are part of the package whether we want them to be or not, whether we punish them or not.” Maybe I’m conflating “shocking” with “Expected.” ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/53 "2011-03-29T16:27:10Z")
Further to Lucy’s attempted twist at an alternate truth, right along with the Rolling Stone implication of their preferred version of the truth… Maybe, just maybe the **REAL** truth in this **“scenario”** was soldiers discussing the wisdom of candy throwing from moving vehicles inasmuch as it endangered the children who might accidentally get hit by the vehicles? Ya think? Just Maybe? Possible, no? Get your own fucking truth, moron. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/54 "2011-03-29T16:31:18Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > Here is the actual quote from the RS pictorial: > > "According to one soldier, members of 3rd Platoon also talked about a **scenario** in which they “would throw candy out in front and in the rear of the Stryker; the Stryker would then run the children over.” > > Here is what you quoted: > > …At one point, soldiers in 3rd Platoon talked about throwing candy out of a Stryker vehicle as they drove through a village and shooting the children who came running to pick up the sweets… Well, what you are quoting is from picture 12. Picture 11, on the other hand, includes the following quote: > [@](#): > > At one point, soldiers in 3rd Platoon talked about throwing candy out of a Stryker vehicle as they drove through a village and shooting the children who came running to pick up the sweets. Two separate scenarios are discussed. One running over, one shooting. I’m hoping to God that use of the phrase scenario indicates it was guys bullshitting around about how it would be funny to do that. But who knows any more. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/55 "2011-03-29T16:41:48Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Two separate scenarios are discussed. One running over, one shooting. I’m hoping to God that use of the phrase scenario indicates it was guys bullshitting around about how it would be funny to do that. According to the RS article, that’s more or less what they did. (Bullshitted, that is, not carried it out.) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/56 "2011-03-29T16:43:14Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I have never, ever, ever been able to understand why people who do stuff like this always take so many fucking _pictures_ of it. Do they WANT to get caught and spend the rest of their lives incarcerated, or be executed? Do they want to have their names forever associated with the gruesome things they have done? I just don’t get it. We live in an age where everything that is photographed or videoed is potentially a matter of public record. And in the military, of all places, where higher authorities are always present and a vast system of intelligence keeps an eye on anything and everything? > > How could anyone think it would be wise to compulsively photograph themselves with the bodies of kids they have shot? There is a certain selection bias going on - those stupid enough to take pics are more likely to get caught, and thus more likely to be heard about. The depressing counterpoint to that is that there are probably lots more incidents where the perps were not stupid enough to take pics, and thus likely did not get caught. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/57 "2011-03-29T16:46:31Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > According to the RS article, that’s more or less what they did. (Bullshitted, that is, not carried it out.) Good. The quotes with the photos could be taken two ways - one they talked about doing it (which is bad, but obviously happens); or alternatively that they were talking about a situation where it was done by someone else. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/58 "2011-03-29T16:49:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I refuse to believe this. No. Don’t bother with proof, never mind the glossy photos with the circles and arrows and explanations on the back of what each one means. Forget it. Nothing, up to and including an affidavit from God Almighty countersigned by the Archangel Gabriel, will convince me. Period. Full stop. > > No. You’re very right not to believe that. The author is embellishing. Tossing candy to the children and then shooting them or running them over is exactly the sort of gallow humor you’ll hear among soldiers, but it doesn’t mean a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/59 "2011-03-29T16:57:24Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > [not that I condone unwarrented killing] > > Actually, you ‘rule’ through firm action, not through indecision. Previously in history armies garrisoning conquered lands did it frequently with a policy of you wound one of us, 1 of you dies, you kill one of us, 10 of you dies. We are trying to be a lot more humane, but I have to admit that I sort of wish for the old style decimation parades just to get the damned process over. I’m not sure which “process” is meant here. Murdering children and other civilians seems like a good way to _extend_ this conflict and ensure that new generations of bitter enmity are sown. As far as I’m concerned, the soldiers in this story (and others like it) have betrayed us. That is not something I say lightly. Their actions are beyond all human decency in themselves, but _worse still_, their commission in our uniforms, under our flag, have made America more and faster enemies. Other lives, of better men, will likely be lost as a result. > [@Nadir](#): > > You realize there are many more homicidal psychopaths wearing civilian clothes stalking the streets of downtown U.S.A. right now, don’t you? I hope you’re right. Because a psychopath in the military can do a lot more damage, not only to the innocent people in front of him, but to his erstwhile comrades in arms, and the rest of my country. For the good of America, it would probably have been best if these twisted bastards were hanged high, and that fact made well known in Afghanistan. But I never thought that was likely. We don’t really have the balls to hold soldiers _that_ accountable. Still, serious [prison time](http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/US-Soldier-Sentenced-to-24-Years-in-Prison-in-Afghan-Murder-Case2-118577784.html) is something, and I hope the word about the sentences gets around. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328/60 "2011-03-29T16:57:38Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Two separate scenarios are discussed. One running over, one shooting. I’m hoping to God that use of the phrase scenario indicates it was guys bullshitting around about how it would be funny to do that. But who knows any more. Exactly. Perfect example of the thorough, forthright, unbiased RS war reporting. :rolleyes: Would you care to call it an “inconsistency,” or just bullshit reporting? Odd, that dialog is not attributed to any particular soldier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kill-team-photos-warning-extremely-disturbing/576328.md?page=4)