# The Killing -- new series on AMC

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [March 31, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691 "2011-03-31T22:16:07Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 17

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**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/322 "2011-06-20T19:13:03Z")

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The thing that distresses me a lot is that whatever method they use to register viewership (at least the numbers of us) without taking into account the percentage of us who are so angry and anxious for something redeeming to happen, gives them the impression that some percentage of us are clamoring for another season. Surely they’re getting some feedback that at least one of them is reading, to suggest they’re pissing on their shoes if they think next season will have anything like the same numbers.

Somebody’s cooking their books, as I see it.

Does anybody know of a fansite or positive-toned blog where there’s a preponderance of worshippers? That ought to be some high comedy!

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/323 "2011-06-20T19:19:28Z")

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I equate it with somehow agreeing to go on a tour bus of San Francisco, where I lived for 15 years.

I know everything the tour guide is going to say, only I’m waiting for an interesting factoid I didn’t know, but I’m not getting it. Then near the end of the tour I’m promised something fascinating about the escape from Alcatraz, and I get “nobody knows if they escaped or not. Thanks, exit to the right.”

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**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/324 "2011-06-20T19:27:01Z")

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One additional detail that pisses me off: when Holder cooked up the faked photo to get an arrest warrant what the hell was his gameplan? Now, I can see that some shabby photoshop would be good enough to trick the Chief of Police and a Judge long enough to get a warrant for his arrest, but he has to know that at trail it’s all going to blow up in their faces. There’s no way a fake would past the defense’s experts and regardless of any other evidence he’s going to get off when that frame job comes to light.

What the fuck is Holder doing? I can’t imagine he’s pulling some sort of triple cross where he’s actually trying to get Richmond off by sabotaging the investigation. If he’s working for the former mayor or the billionaire or someone else who wanted to undermine Richmond in he final hour of the election I suppose that would work but the end result is still going to blow up at trial. This would be particularly bad for the mayor who’s already taking heat from the public about an incompetent police force. Is Holder just so incredibly naive to think that he’d later just swap the real toll booth photo with the fake one when it was inevitably found, to do this he’d need to be 100% sure that that photo would turn up and it still might not match up well enough to replace the fake.

Incidentally, does anyone else think it was aggressively stupid and disdainful that they didn’t show who the conspirator with Holder in the car was? If you’re going to fuck over the audience you might as well go all out and show us another suspect to stew on all winter. That would have at least been a reveal worthy of a finale as opposed to the wishy-washy reveal that Holder is up to “something”, which may or may not be entirely bad.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/325 "2011-06-20T19:28:37Z")

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> [@obfusciatrist](#):
>
> This was an even bigger FU than it would otherwise appear. Keep in mind that when they wrote that ending they didn’t know for sure there would be a second season.
> 
> Imagine the howls if the show hadn’t been picked up. At least now I’ll be able to read some Wikipedia recaps next year if I still care at all.

One write-up of the finale (the one at the Onion AV Club) suggested that the show might have been renewed just to avoid the complaints of a lack of closure. (Although that seems a silly reason. If I were in charge at AMC, I would have insisted on an alternate ending that definitively wraps up everything. That way, they could have run that if they chose not to renew the show.)

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**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/326 "2011-06-20T19:34:05Z")

</div>

> [@Omniscient](#):
>
> One additional detail that pisses me off: when Holder cooked up the faked photo to get an arrest warrant what the hell was his gameplan?

Yup. Not only was the “reveal” a Fuck You to the audience, it didn’t even make _sense_! Holder knew Linden was trying to get the footage from the tollbooth and that it would only be a matter of days/hours until the real photos (or as it turns out, lack thereof) would be revealed and then what? Good way to get the case against Richmond dismissed and bye bye to Holder’s career. Unless the billionaire is paying him a few million dollars or something I don’t know why he’d tank his own career with such a dumb move.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/327 "2011-06-20T19:38:06Z")

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> [@Omniscient](#):
>
> They couldn’t even manage to do that.
> 
> Think more along the lines of the The Soprano’s ending with a new bad guy introduced in the final seconds.

Full shameful disclosure : I never saw the Sopranos.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/328 "2011-06-20T19:58:02Z")

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> [@Zeldar](#):
>
> Does anybody know of a fansite or positive-toned blog where there’s a preponderance of worshippers? That ought to be some high comedy!

That’s kind of why I’m following _this_ thread. The idea that a mere TV show can invoke such outrage is really quite entertaining. I figure that any show that can get such a strong reaction must be doing something right.

BTW, I’d have been just as satisfied with the finale if there wasn’t going to be a season 2. That would have let the viewer try to make sense of what happened without a “right” answer being spoon fed to him.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/329 "2011-06-20T20:17:37Z")

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Bill Simmons’ [take](http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6680958/hackery-first-degree) on it.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/330 "2011-06-20T20:22:57Z")

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> [@Morbo](#):
>
> Bill Simmons’ [take](http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6680958/hackery-first-degree) on it.

What do you click on to get his take?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/331 "2011-06-20T20:23:25Z")

</div>

It isn’t the kind of show where the audience has been given hints and clues to chew on. Every single lead or clue had been a blind ally. It has not given the viewer anything to make sense of. It’s not subtle or layered, or challenging. It isn’t trying make the audience work. Everything is right up front. It’s not a puzzle with pieces for the audience to put together. I’s a puzzle where every piece is revealed as not belonging to the puzzle. The whole show is like that game where you mime throwing a ball for a dog, but the show never lets go of the ball. it doesn’t give the audience a _chance_ figure anything out. That would be fine, but it doesn’t want us to do that. It’s trying to make the audience dance, like they’ll keep falling for the same feints and fakes forever.

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**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/332 "2011-06-20T20:36:56Z")

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> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> Yeah, the journey blew ass too. It was a long ride in a hot car with boring people that kept making frivolous stops, them just when you think you’re getting to your destination, it turns out to be another rest stop.

If you look at the writers involved with the show, it’s pretty clear that nothing good could have happened. Two of the writers cut their teeth working on\* Melrose Place\*. Veena Sud brought some of them from _Cold Case_ following its cancellation – which you think would have been a big red flag for AMC, the showrunner stocking her creative team with writers from one of the most execrable, un-original police procedurals in television history. Most of the other writers came from television shows like\* Law and Order\*,\* Criminal Minds\*, and _Damages_. It’s just, what the fuck? I don’t know what the executives at AMC were thinking.

One of the editors at the [AV Club](http://www.avclub.com/) commented that the show was like a single episode of _Cold Case_, stretched out to thirteen episodes. That’s the best assessment of the show I’ve seen, I think.

> [@](#):
>
> Yup. Not only was the “reveal” a Fuck You to the audience, it didn’t even make sense!

It didn’t make sense on multiple levels. I mean, what bothers me most is that the writers gave no indication that Holder was anything but forthright with the investigation. He may have been a little skeevy, but for the entire series, it was plain to the audience that he was working in earnest to solve the case. There’s just no indication that he was a duplicitous person, at all.

For me, the most glaring mistake the writers made with Holder happened in the penultimate episode. One of the Beau Soleil women asked to meet him down by the dock, where presumably she was going to reveal something damning about the still-mysterious Orpheus. Holder is standing in a phonebooth when he looks over and notices a campaign poster for Richmond. You can see him put two and two together. If he was planning on casting suspicion on Richmond anyway, why the hell does he seem surprised?

Not only that, by why the fuck is he enthusiastically following all of the red herrings? Like The Cage? The butcher shop? Rosie was found in Richmond’s campaign car, so it shouldn’t have been difficult to nudge the investigation in that direction, if setting up Richmond was his goal all along. It’s almost as if the writers decided at the very last moment to make him a double-agent, ignoring everything they had previously written about him.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/333 "2011-06-20T20:38:21Z")

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> [@Mehitabel](#):
>
> I had a great Father’s Day BBQ and played with my adorable little nephews all day and then came home to watch THIS. Arrrrgh! Veena Sud, the most arrogant showrunner in America, said smugly in a recent interview that during the last five minutes, “people will be jumping out of their seats”. Well, actually, I was, lunging for the remote and stopping and erasing the show from my DVR for good. It doesn’t deserve to have this crap on its innocent hard drive.

I’ve been watching _The Killing_ since it started, and while I don’t have any comments on last night’s episode (I think because I have learned not to expect much), I do want to go a bit O/T here and ask who is this “Veena Sud” person and what is a showrunner? I’ve watched every episode, sometimes twice, and I’ve never seen or heard of her.  
(Yes, I googled her name, and that didn’t help a bit.)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/334 "2011-06-20T20:46:02Z")

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> [@Tarwater](#):
>
> One of the editors at the [AV Club](http://www.avclub.com/) commented that the show was like a single episode of _Cold Case_, stretched out to thirteen episodes. That’s the best assessment of the show I’ve seen, I think.

That makes sense, as Veena Sud worked on Cold Case before taking this show.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/335 "2011-06-20T20:46:57Z")

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To save having to backtrack earlier pages again, here are my posts in this thread, and I think I was neutral up until the “\<===” point. My “outrage” grew by episode, and I feel I have been fair and attentive to other people’s opinions and views:

[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13683551&postcount=81](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13683551&postcount=81)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13701502&postcount=102](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13701502&postcount=102)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13701575&postcount=105](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13701575&postcount=105)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13703916&postcount=115](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13703916&postcount=115)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13728094&postcount=129](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13728094&postcount=129)

[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13783678&postcount=143](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13783678&postcount=143) \<===  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13833083&postcount=173](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13833083&postcount=173)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13836881&postcount=185](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13836881&postcount=185)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13883384&postcount=222](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13883384&postcount=222)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13883821&postcount=226](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13883821&postcount=226)

[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13884294&postcount=232](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13884294&postcount=232)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13909498&postcount=250](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13909498&postcount=250)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13909748&postcount=253](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13909748&postcount=253)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13910300&postcount=257](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13910300&postcount=257)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13912714&postcount=264](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13912714&postcount=264)

[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13935236&postcount=292](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13935236&postcount=292)  
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13935366&postcount=294](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13935366&postcount=294)

But you can put me down as “not a fan.”

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/336 "2011-06-20T20:50:28Z")

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> [@Tarwater](#):
>
> It didn’t make sense on multiple levels. I mean, what bothers me most is that the writers gave no indication that Holder was anything but forthright with the investigation. He may have been a little skeevy, but for the entire series, it was plain to the audience that he was working in earnest to solve the case. There’s just no indication that he was a duplicitous person, at all.
> 
> For me, the most glaring mistake the writers made with Holder happened in the penultimate episode. One of the Beau Soleil women asked to meet him down by the dock, where presumably she was going to reveal something damning about the still-mysterious Orpheus. Holder is standing in a phonebooth when he looks over and notices a campaign poster for Richmond. You can see him put two and two together. If he was planning on casting suspicion on Richmond anyway, why the hell does he seem surprised?
> 
> Not only that, by why the fuck is he enthusiastically following all of the red herrings? Like The Cage? The butcher shop? Rosie was found in Richmond’s campaign car, so it shouldn’t have been difficult to nudge the investigation in that direction, if setting up Richmond was his goal all along. It’s almost as if the writers decided at the very last moment to make him a double-agent, ignoring everything they had previously written about him.

Agreed with everything on Holder. None of it jibes with anything else we’ve seen of him all season. The frameup doesn’t even make sense since he had to have known it would fall apart almost immediately. That whole scene had the look of something that was contrived and tacked on at the last second, then they’ll figure out how to fix it later. It might even just be another Mr. Furley misunderstanding.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/337 "2011-06-20T20:57:55Z")

</div>

> [@kapri](#):
>
> I’ve been watching _The Killing_ since it started, and while I don’t have any comments on last night’s episode (I think because I have learned not to expect much), I do want to go a bit O/T here and ask who is this “Veena Sud” person and what is a showrunner? I’ve watched every episode, sometimes twice, and I’ve never seen or heard of her.  
> (Yes, I googled her name, and that didn’t help a bit.)

[Showrunner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showrunner)

Basically, a showrunner is the person who is the “boss” of a given TV show, and who manages the creative direction and day to day operations. Sometimes, but not always, this person has the title of “executive producer,” and sometimes, but not always, this person is also the creator or head writer of a show. Sud was the showrunner on _Cold case_, and is nominally the “creator” of _The Killing_.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/338 "2011-06-20T21:08:08Z")

</div>

> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> [Showrunner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showrunner)
> 
> Basically, a showrunner is the person who is the “boss” of a given TV show, and who manages the creative direction and day to day operations. Sometimes, but not always, this person has the title of “executive producer,” and sometimes, but not always, this person is also the creator or head writer of a show. Sud was the showrunner on _Cold case_, and is nominally the “creator” of _The Killing_.

Not quite a David Chase, David Milch or David Shore in my book.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![HenryGale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b782af/32.png) [@HenryGale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HenryGale)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/339 "2011-06-20T21:08:30Z")

</div>

Huh.  
I’m not sure why, exactly, but I didn’t have at all the same reaction that just about the entire internet seemed to have about last night’s season finale.

I guess it’s because I didn’t expect the Larson murder to be solved in this episode. Is that what everyone else expected? How, then, would the show solve all of the loose ends regarding the characters around the investigation? Mitch leaving the family, Stan’s trial, beardy moving company employee’s craziness, the millionaire’s deal with the councilman, etc. What reason is there to keep coming back to these characters when we’ve moved on to a new, presumably unrelated investigation? I thought, after watching the penultimate episode, there clearly was not enough time to wrap up the story in one more sitting. I didn’t realize anyone felt differently.

Personally, I dug the episode, but I’ve enjoyed the whole season. I take it many did not but kept watching anyway… and are now angry that they still don’t enjoy it.

Anyway, I, for one, am looking forward to season 2.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/340 "2011-06-20T21:12:23Z")

</div>

Bob did it.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/341 "2011-06-20T21:49:50Z")

</div>

> [@Contrapuntal](#):
>
> What do you click on to get his take?

Unless I’m being whooshed, that link takes me straight to his article about the show, which actually sums up how I feel pretty well. [Here](http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6680958/hackery-first-degree) it is again.

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